How much will "posession of a stolen test" hurt me?

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Tell him you know you ought to be punished, but a suspension for you is much worse than for others in your class b/c all ur hard work goes to waste.

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<p>The teachers and administrators at our HS would fall for your argument, too, and I really am uncomfortable with that.</p>

<p>A group of AP/GT kids cheated on a test my son's sophomore year. Since these were the top of the class kids, they were not suspended and it was not put on their records. Essentially the same group of AP/GT kids got info off a teacher's computer junior year. Again, since these were the top of the class kids, they were not suspended and it was not put on their records. </p>

<p>How is it possibly fair that the kids who may go to community college or directional state U would have had two suspensions for cheating on their records and these "top of the class" kids didn't?</p>

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Everyone cheats at some point, I have (ok not like OP-level or even on a test, but like copying a homework assignment or two, nothing major so don't kill me CC haha) also, but drinking and drugs, like you said, is ILLEGAL.

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<p>So? The law isn't the ultimate arbiter of what is right. Drinking doesn't have to harm anyone, whether you are fourteen or forty. Cheating--dishonesty--does: it damages society as a whole, because society is built on our faith that we can take people at their word, that they are who they say they are. If we can't trust one another, at least cautiously, then society can't function. So in my moral code, at least, cheating is a much graver failure than underage drinking.</p>

<p>OP, wherever you end up in college, just know that many colleges have *VERY STRICT * policies regarding academic dishonesty...as in boot you out the door and no refund of the $25,000 your parents just paid for that semester. </p>

<p>I was astounded at the plagairism policy that one of my son's college teachers had...things that I had never considered plagairism. So whether or not you have learned a lesson from this, you have really got to tow the line in college.</p>

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I'm not saying 1 drink, I don't mind that at all because THAT'S experimenting; but when one continuously drinks and parties almost every weekend, then that's where the equivalence of cheating vs. drinking should come into play.

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<p>Drinking and partying every weekend, whether or not it's right, is simply not as serious as cheating on a test. If you get caught with a stolen test in college, you will fail the course, and if you don't convince the administration that you're repentant and deserve a second chance, you will end up either expelled or on a very long suspension. Understandably, admissions people for top colleges don't like to admit people who they can't trust not to do this.</p>

<p>But, in all fairness, you guys are acting as if only a few students cheat. In reality, the vast majority of high schoolers cheat quite frequently. I am in no way DEFENDING cheating. Only trying to provide some context.</p>

<p>Collegeguz said
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cheaters always lose

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<p>But is that really true? From a 2000 report by CQ Researcher</p>

<p>"The problem is even worse in high schools, where the slackers aren't the only ones cheating. Honor students are as likely as low-achievers to cheat; girls now cheat as much as boys and -- alarmingly -- medical and engineering students are as likely to cheat as liberal arts students.</p>

<p>In its last annual survey of 700,000 top students, Who's Who Among American High School Students found that 80 percent of the high-achievers admitted to cheating, the highest percentage in the survey's 29-year history."</p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that cheaters very rarely lose. Most of the students that colleges admit are cheaters, and the colleges are absolutely clueless. Is it fair to single out only one cheater, in this case the OP? I'm not saying cheating shouldn't be treated as a serious offense. It should. But I think it should be treated on the same level as breaking the law...underage drinking.</p>

<p>well, little dude, ill come out and admit that i drink and party every weekend. have for the past couple years. its never gotten in the way of my work, and its definitely not immoral. cheating - that's unambiguously immoral. i have never ever cheated in my life (seriously) and that's out of pride... i want my grades to be MINE. don't mind me for taking offense to your throwing me into a pile with people who go out of their way to avoid the work i manage to put in despite my reasonable partying habits.</p>

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The fact of the matter is that cheaters very rarely lose. Most of the students that colleges admit are cheaters, and the colleges are absolutely clueless. Is it fair to single out only one cheater, in this case the OP? I'm not saying cheating shouldn't be treated as a serious offense. It should. But I think it should be treated on the same level as breaking the law...underage drinking.

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<p>No. You punish the more serious offence. It doesn't matter how many people do it--underage drinking is still not a moral failing on the level of cheating. And yes, it is absolutely fair to "single out" cheaters when they are caught. To let them off lightly under the reasoning that "well, everyone does it anyway..." only encourages the view that cheating is acceptable.</p>

<p>There is no way that drinking/drug use and cheating can be equivocated in terms of a college application. Colleges accept students for ACADEMIC purposes. Cheating is academically relevant; drinking is not.
Anyway, OP, I would first find out if there's any way to have the incident removed from your record. If not, you may want to include a note about it in your application; write what you've learned. But keep in mind that the odds are not so good.
You may want to read The Gatekeepers; I think I remember there being a discussion of a student who was suspended for a day, wrote her essay about it, had her GC explain it, etc - all in a very positive light. She was still largely rejected.
Good luck.</p>

<p>Adam Wheeler formerly of Harvard ---->‘This</a> can’t be our Adam Wheeler’ - The Boston Globe</p>

<p>Brian Corman Valedictorian of Columbia--->Brian</a> Corman, Columbia Valedictorian, Plagiarized Patton Oswalt In Graduation Speech (VIDEO)</p>

<p>It's evident that cheating and lying spans all universities, even the best of the best. How far did these two go to get in I wonder?</p>

<p>We just had a kid at our school lose his D1 baseball scholarship over they same type of issue. He was punished by the high school exactly the same as those who had less to lose. Sorry, but I agree that punishments should be handed out based on what you did, not who you are.</p>

<p>I've got to admit that I don't understand why colleges are tougher on cheaters than drugs/alcohol either. How many students die of "test cheating" each year, compared to alcohol poisoning or drug ODs? Not to mention drunk driving . . . </p>

<p>Not that cheating is acceptable or appropriate either, but there is a gradient.</p>

<p>@Kajon-</p>

<p>Classic philosophical debate right here. Should the laws that govern us depend on who we are or what we do? Niche's idea of the ubermensch (moral relativism) vs. moral absolutism. While I agree with you to some degree, Kajon, I don't think the issue is that black and white. There's always a grey area in philosophy. Look at anonymous' post. Because s/he was "forgiven" from her/his misgivings, s/he is attending a good school and may become a leader in our society one day. Don't mistake me for a moral relativist, but I'm definitely not as absolutist, as you appear to be.</p>

<p>And samiseoul, your post is probably the biggest slippery slope argument I've ever heard, and actually goes to proving golfer111's point. Those examples are the epitome of the people who weren't caught, which is many, many students. The OP doesn't strike me as somebody who's going to create a new identity and start a secret second life if they're posting this question on CC. Furthermore, I could provide a thousand examples of college students binge drinking on campus and subsequently dying to support the point that underage drinking is serious business and should be considered as such.</p>

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The top colleges can fill their classes with students with strong stats and ECs who haven't been caught for academic dishonesty.

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<p>I call bull*****. Any kid - I repeat - ANY KID would do what he did.</p>

<p>Just because you're a dishonest person doesn't mean all of us are.</p>

<p>@mindbender~</p>

<p>". . .the biggest slippery slope argument. . ."</p>

<p>My point is, those were students that got into those schools who obviously have those cheating tendencies. If the Valedictorian of Columbia plagiarizes lines from a comedian for his speech, it makes you wonder what he might have throughout high school to get accepted, and if those things could have been brought to light to any adcom. That being said, I do not that think this will permanently maim the OP's chances of getting accepted to a good school, so long as he/she does not carry those tendencies to college and shows that they've matured from the situation in its entirety. </p>

<p>". . .the people who weren't caught. . ."</p>

<p>P.S. Nine times out of ten, if they made news, they were obviously caught at some point : )</p>

<p>Exactly. Some people just don't like to cheat.
(ex: today I was studying for my final, one of my friends asked if I wanted to know the problems he had trouble with, I said 'no, I'll just study, it should be okay'. It's as easy as that. grade: 98 :D)</p>

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The reason that anonymous was admitted despite having such a blemish on his/her record may have been due to the fact that Anonymous turned himself/herself in the next day because of feeling guilty. Anonymous truly sounds like a person who learned from a mistake and isn't likely to do it again.

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<p>But I thought the point was he got it removed from his record?</p>

<p>You could argue that the fact that he turned himself in and expressed remorse was why he was able to get it removed from his record, and if he had not done that and had been caught later (somehow) he would have had to keep both the C grade and the black mark on his record. None of us can say for sure what might have happened since there are so many possibilities out there.</p>

<p>minderbender - I do tend to see the world in black and white. The only class I dropped in college was philosophy! (I don't know if it was because of the smell of pipe tobacco, my first exposure to a man with a pony tail, or the fact that I was supposed to be able to make sense out of A Clockwork Orange. :p</p>

<p>Being able to listen to ideas and thoughts from across all spectrums is why America is such a great place to live.</p>

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Nope. No way. NOT any kid - most kids wouldn't. If you'd take the test you'd take the small electronic device from the store, and it's IN NO WAY true that any kid would take the test.</p>