I find this assertion to be overly simplistic and frankly vague. To be more specific, the primary source of conflict between Pope JPII and the Jesuits was over “liberation theology” in Latin America.
The pope, having lived in communist Poland, was an ardent anti-communist and he perceived liberation theology as being infected with Marxism. Because many prominent Jesuits supported liberation theology, they found themselves at odds with Pope John Paul II. Father Ernesto Cardenal, a Jesuit priest and Sandinista, was publicly rebuked by JPII.
Which side one sympathizes with will obviously depend largely on his or her political beliefs. However, the friction between the Jesuit order and Pope John Paul II was not, shall we say, merely abstract.
Frankly, I do not think this has much bearing on attending a Jesuit college. Some Jesuits might be perceived as leaning left, but others seem more on the right. Besides, liberation theology is no longer a hot issue and even Ernesto Cardenal is no longer a Sandinista.
Thank you, I’m hoping I can talk the rest of the family in checking it out along with RIT and Canisius. I don’t know if you read but his other choice is Wheaton (ma). I am a bit concerned about the neighborhood around Canisius but then again my daughter goes to RPI in Troy and she’s doing fine (although with a can of pepper spray at my insistence)
I just don’t find people asking about where I went to college.
I wouldn’t make assumptions about a “St. Lawrence” grad. It doesn’t conjure up anything to me, religious or otherwise. I would think a Notre Dame graduate would have a good chance of being Catholic, but by no means a slam dunk.
Interesting that people actually worry about this, though!
For whatever reason, people ask me fairly often. Maybe it is because I live in Columbus, Ohio and don’t root for the Buckeyes football team. LOL.
Some folks actually do. I don’t get it either, but I tend to meet them where they are at. If it is an issue for them, then I don’t try to change people, just point 'em where they seem to want to go.
We couldn’t care less if it’s a Catholic, Jewish or a Morman school. Did you read MY questions or only following all the other discussions my question spawned. I asked “Our family has never been to church. We live our lives and let others do they own thing. But how uncomfortable will it be for my son to attend Canisius College and not want to discuss a higher power at all?” We as a family don’t want to impose our beliefs on other s as I would ask others not to do to us. If my son goes to Canisius I am wondering if he will feel put upon to have to discuss religion more than he would feel comfortable doing. My daughter went to Smith. An all womans school and transferred because she was put upon constantly morning noon and night to up hold her feminism. Just not wanted in our family. As I also previously said. Live and Let Live
And I’ll say again that only the student can decide if it will bother him/her to be in a Catholic environment. The religion won’t be pushed, no attempts to convert, no exclusion (except for the Catholic things like communion and getting married in the church on campus). I have a very good friend who is Jewish and I would not suggest she send her children to ANY Catholic university, even BC or Georgetown, because it would bother HER. She wouldn’t like all the icons and the calendar that is set based on the Catholic holidays and holy days (Jewish students can be excused for their holy days, but that wouldn’t be good enough for my friend). She wouldn’t like that prays are said before some school events, like convocation or graduation, even if optional for some students.
One can join in, one can ignore the religious aspects (except the required courses), or one can spend 4 years being mad about it or trying to change it. Don’t fight it. If you can’t accept that there is going to be religion at these schools, don’t go
There is an article on the Loyola-Marymount site about the Jewish community at the school. Interesting. About 5% of students participate and enjoy their college and religious experiences because they are open to new things.
No no I meant the resistance to St. Bonaventure. Franciscans are the hippies in the church and very casual and laid back. They bless pets on October 4th, seriously.
The biggest factor in his hesitation is that his financial aid package, ALL the money given to him is based on a 2.7 gpa. If he screws up no more money. If we think on this realistically, kids go to college and screw up sometimes. It could happen. It would be better to attend a college that has more of a buffer in the gpa level. He is very smart and can easily stay above the 3.0 BUT shit happens. I think he is being smart in considering this. Canisius and Wheaton require only a 2.0. Also St. Bonaventure requires more religious classes than Canisius. From reading college review sites, St Bonaventure appears quite a bit more religious. At the beginning of this thread we weren’t even considering St. Bonaventure because of those reasons so I asked about Canisius’s religious environment only. Now after reading all these comments we have been enlightened. I hope he will reconsider after reading all of this and we will visit the campus next weekend.
Your concern is reasonable and is the best argument for visiting St. Bonaventure. Websites can only tell you so much… however, definitely recommend that you look at the curriculum requirements at both schools. Many Catholic colleges will let students take standard (non-religious) philosophy courses to meet the Theology/Philosophy requirements. Dig deep into that aspect at both Canisius and SB, because that is where he is likely to be expected to discuss religious issues.
Canisius and St. Bonaventure are not considered to be religiously conservative, and my guess is that neither one would make your son uncomfortable. The kind of school your family really wants to avoid is Franciscan University of Steubenville (hint @collegeparentnew SB is not the only Franciscan university in the US). Steubenville has lots of folks who are “more Catholic than the Pope.”
I just did a quick – very quick – check of the core requirements of both Canisius and St. Bonaventure.
Canisius requires two philosophy courses and two “religious studies” courses. Does not appear that any substitution is allowed for the religious studies courses, although one of these requirements does allow the student to choose which course to study. Students can choose to focus on non-Christian religions, including ancient Greek and Roman religions and religions in China. Zen and Meditation is also one option here. http://www.canisius.edu/academics/core/core-req/ http://www.canisius.edu/academics/core/structure/field-courses/field-1/
That makes no sense. There have been some issues at some liberal arts schools with opinions about Israel, but where have Jewish kids been “routinely harassed” at liberal schools? Jewish kids are not likely to feel comfortable at schools requiring religious services or where the large preponderance of their classmates are actively practicing another religion, and purposely chose a religious based college.
I agree with the poster who suggested visiting campuses to see how it feels to the student. What is no big deal to one person may be too much for another. I grew up in the Finger Lakes area of NY and still live here. For me, religion is live and let live. I don’t care if others are practicing or showing their faith and I don’t mind learning about it in a scholarly sense, I just don’t want anyone trying to convert me. I do realize things are different in other areas of the country though. In some places, people meet someone new and the first thing they want to know is what church the person goes to. Or they live someplace where religious politicians are always trying to make new laws that govern whole towns, cities, or states. I can see someone coming from those areas just wanting zero religion even as ambiance.
The required courses were apparently slightly different when I went to SBU. Personally, while I wasn’t all that religious I saw it as a trade off and didn’t mind it so much since we didn’t have Greek life or required athletic courses (two things I strongly did not want in my college life). Some people like gym classes or fraternities/ sororities or dislike religion even more than them. People weigh things differently. Visiting the campuses will give anyone a much better idea.
Also, as far as GPA, I suspect it’s much easier to keep a higher GPA at these small schools with very accessible, helpful professors. The high achievers are only getting below 3.0 at SBU if they are partying in the off campus houses in Alleghany 5 nights a week. But it’s good for kids to know themselves and how much wiggle room they feel they need for just in case.
Good luck witchy woman! Whichever college your son chooses, I hope he loves it!
These days it seems like there are lot of pew-sitting Catholics who are “more Catholic than the Pope.” haha. Just the nature of this Pope, I guess.
But I know what you mean about the more traditionally minded Catholic schools: Ave Maria, Christendom, St Thomas Aquinas in California, Franciscan, University of Dallas, Benedictine College etc.
In case anyone was curious, on our road trip to check out RIT, Canisius, St. Bonaventure and U Buffalo we never went past RIT. Our son put his deposit down at the Accepted Sudent Day. Never made it to the other colleges!!
@dadstressed - The little three has nothing to do “with Catholic circles.” It goes back to when these three were actually good at college hoops, and as Philly had the Big 5, western New York had the “Little Three.” It is now the “Big Four” with UB added to the group for marketing purposes.
@witchywoman23 - you should care if it is a Mormon school. They are much more in your face than most Catholic schools. Bottom line is that your child will not get a better education than a Jesuit school.
witchywoman23, congratulations to your son! My cousin’s son is a senior there, and he is having a great experience. I’m sorry I really don’t know any details, but I know they have been especially happy with the internship/co-op experiences. Hope your son has a great year!