<p>hmom5(#139), I am just curious. What kind of procedure makes randomness for the overrepresented groups from overrepresented places? Do they toss up coins? or spend only short time in reading apps?</p>
<p>Fiddlin, you should read the book ‘The Price Of Admission’ by Golden. He won a Pulitzer for this research and goes into a lot of detail on who gets in and why.</p>
<p>The issue at the private schools is that they typically have many more legacies, connected and development kids than even the elite publics. Don’t get me wrong, the good LI, Westchester and NJ public school kids have their own very competitive pools.</p>
<p>The randomness for the overrepresented just comes down to numbers. These pools send large numbers of qualified applicants who read very similarly and there’s only room for a few. How many investment banker kids from NY who sail and have visited 40 countries do they want? They don’t toss coins though they may as well. This is where it comes down to those who have successfully differentiated themselves in the application.</p>
<p>Fiddlin, I think your son should consider applying to more than 8 schools. Best of all of course is having a great early safety admission - but if you are an all-around excellent unhooked kid interested in attending a highly selective school, it might make sense to apply more broadly than 8.</p>
<p>even 10 to 14. some good advice here on cc over the years…and i’ve noticed that it’s not unusual for top students to apply to 10 to 14.</p>
<p>hmom5, thank you. I think I don’t get you wrong.
I read several news articles about what adcom officers really do as well as some TV programs. I think voting by officers may make randomness if we call it randomness which I think inevitable.</p>
<p>memake, condor30, number of colleges to apply is my concern, too. First of all, GC at my S’s school limits it to 8. It would not be changed except for special circumstances. We are following their line of narrowing process. The reason is convincing to me. I agree with them that it is important for applicants to grow their passion to get in the particular schools.
My S looks having not sufficiently clear pictures of his listed colleges. He has to explore particular schools further but 15 seems to me too many to do it precisely. Maybe the most key point is to find out the best safty school for himself.</p>
<p>I think what we call “randomness” would be better termed “subjectivity.” Admitted kids at high-end schools are admitted for reason. It’s just that the reason often can’t be discerned by those outside the process. When it comes down to the “coin flip” between two candidates, they probably pick the one whose essay they liked a little better, or whose ECs were closer to what they are looking for, or they just simply liked that kid better - subjective reasons.</p>
<p>Let me get back to some of music EC.
I understand vilolinists are generally not advatageous than demanded other istrumentalist like basoonists.
What about viola? 4 years ago, my S tried it in piano Q at a summer camp. When I went to pick him up, the camp owner told me he should do both violin and viola then he would be advantageous in conservatory admission. Their Mozart’s piano Q sounded nice to me so I recommended him to try viola. He refused to do so because he wanted to concentrate on violin.
I will not recommend him to try viola again, but It would be informative for readers if someone clarifies violist’s situation of music EC for college admission.</p>
<p>fiddlin, my son’s school also had an eight college limit. Although I understand the point of researching and focusing, I think that 8 is not enough for kids who intend to apply to HYPSM and possibly AWS. </p>
<p>My son applied ED to his top choice and was admitted so he didn’t have to armwrestle with his counselor, but at the time I felt very strongly that the highschool has no right to limit kids who want to apply to several selective colleges. (As long as their list is not just the whole ivy league.)</p>
<p>FiddlinEcon, as an EC, it will depend on the school, it’s needs for orchestration, ensemble pairings, and what the level of the music department “pull”, if any, is. Possibly a plus in an LAC, particularly in a good, small program where strings tend to be overpopulated with violins and cellos. (This situation MAY also apply to oboists, bassoonists, euphonium players, and possibly harpists). Departments/schools with strong chamber emphasis or quartet programs may well give a nod to a quality violist (or a switch hitter capable of high level doubling) over a typically over-represented instrument. Again, it’s an additional data point, nothing more and only in specific programs. </p>
<p>I disagree with the music director who suggested that doubling is an edge in conservatory level admissions. The techniques, hand positions, instrument size and bow weights vary considerably between the two viols, particularly in the advanced repertoire. There are very few students who can master both effectively and be competitive on either in a conservatory level audition based admit. The argument that there are less violists, and therefore an easier admit holds no water at the conservatory/preprofessional/professional level. There is a huge gap between proficiency, mastery, and artistry. Do not confuse them.</p>
<p>Some side reading <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/664421-switching-violin-viola.html?highlight=viola[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/664421-switching-violin-viola.html?highlight=viola</a></p>
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<p>Bingo!! Make it TWO safety schools in these precarious times. If you have a safety school that you really wouldn’t mind attending, then you can use your other 6 choices to “shoot for the moon.” </p>
<p>But I also agree with momrath that 8 is not enough for kids who intend to apply to HYPSM and possibly AWS. A kid could apply to 6 super selective schools and easily get into none of them, depending on which 6 he or she applies to. Because of the “subjective” factor, an expanded list of schools may have yielded at least one acceptance.</p>
<p>Re high schools that limit the number of colleges to which students can apply: </p>
<p>I’ve always felt that the majority of kids should be able to limit their college lists to 10-12 by researching their choices carefully, but I’ve also felt that it was not the high school’s place to impose restrictions on the number of applications students can file. But I recently had an eye-opening conversation with a college counselor from a private school where students targeting highly selective colleges had begun filing many, many applications, sometimes upwards of 20. To put the brakes on trophy hunting and mindlessly filing applications at every university in the US News Top 20 + AWS, his school began limiting applications to ten, and they also began announcing the limitation in the high school profile. Because colleges know that the high school limits the maximum number of schools to which students can apply, they also know that applicants from that high school are reasonably serious about their college. </p>
<p>I had never looked at the issue from the colleges’ perspective. This counselor also said that families generally accept the limitation gracefully, knowing that it gives their kids’ applications credibility with admissions offices.</p>
<p>violadad, thank you for posting and links, I was expecting you. I should have search “viola” in this forum first. Maybe I took the camp owners words wrongly. He himself was a pro violist and taught my S viola in the camp. My S had wish to become a pro at that time, so we discussed about his “conservatory bound” thing. </p>
<p>I think we should talk about appropriate number of college apps in other threads. I will start one if there is no on-going thread about it.</p>
<p>"I’ve always felt that the majority of kids should be able to limit their college lists to 10-12 by researching their choices carefully, but I’ve also felt that it was not the high school’s place to impose restrictions on the number of applications students can file.</p>
<p>Due to trophy-hunting, scattershot applications and the amount of time (and therefore money) that it takes on the schools’ part, I think high schools have the right to limit the # of applications students make. </p>
<p>On CC, I see students who’ve applied to, for instance, 4 safety schools, 6 matches and 10 reaches, all of which were unrealistic reaches. Why would anyone need 4 safety schools? I can see having 2 safety schools in case that’s all one gets accepted to. That way, one will have a choice. I can’t think of any reason, however, to need 4 safeties. By definition a safety should be a school you know you’ll be accepted to, would be happy to attend and also can afford. No reason at all to get 4 such acceptances.</p>
<p>I think it’s rare that students truly need to apply to more than 8 schools. Most will find an appropriate college by applying to fewer than 8 schools. </p>
<p>I also find it irritating to see stellar students on CC who get, for instance, 15 acceptances, and then moan about not knowing which of their 6 reach schools to accept. The same students will diss their many match and safety acceptances, which indicates that they never were interested in those students. I’m referring to the exceptionally strong students on CC – the ones who stand out even in this rarified air due to 99th percentile scores and national EC achievements – who never were interested in going to not-even-flagship state U or second tier private, but applied to several apparently to collect lots of acceptances.</p>
<p>I realize this has thread has died, but in the interest of potential future use, I’m adding a link to the thread here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/731962-music-supplement-college-applications.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/731962-music-supplement-college-applications.html</a></p>
<p>A couple of links within my post there pointing to recent threads that have some “out of the box” questions and parameters relating to the music supplement question.</p>
<p>violadad –
Thanks for the links and your thoughtful responses to all the posters with similar questions. This board is a wonderful resource, but it can be hard to find prior threads that have discussed a particular issue you want information about. You just made my life easier!</p>
<p>I didn’t know where to ask this question, since there have been so many topics on this issue. I go to one of the top public high schools in the country (the average SAT score is a little over 2200 and it is one of the top 3 feeders into Princeton). I have been playing the piano since I was five and pursue it as an extracurricular, but do not intend to major in it in college. I was thinking about sending in a cd to distinguish myself from the other great students at my school. I have great academics (4.0 GPA, 2250 SAT, in the 33-36 range for the ACT, in the 750-800 range for all my SAT 2s, 5s on 7 AP exams) and I am confident that I am getting great recommendations from my counselor and two of my teachers.
My question is, is it appropriate to send in a CD when I have never competed nationally? At the end of 9th grade, I passed the final level, Grade 8, of the Royal Schools of Music Examinations, which is the last level before teacher and performing certifications or diplomas of this British school of music. Generally this exam is considered a requirement to get into music colleges in Britain. I was wondering if anyone was familiar with this program and knew if this level is what colleges such as UVA, Columbia, UPenn, William & Mary, and Princeton are looking for, or if it would only hurt my application.
If it’s any help, I just recently polished some old pieces from middle school and early high school including Fantaisie-Impromptu by Chopin and Allegro Moderato from Sonata in C by Mozart (which isn’t particularly difficult)</p>
<p>I will tell you that my son, a music major at a conservatory, applied to and was accepted at an Ivy last Spring. His grades were excellent, his ACT was above average/good; and his SAT IIs were abysmal. He did submit an arts supplement (with resume and recommendations) and a CD. He is very good at what he plays, had a great music resume, but had no awards of any kind at application time (though he won a pretty prestigious one subsequently.) There is no question in my mind that his arts supplement and alumni interview were probably the tipping points for him. Another boy who played a different instrument, but had similar stats. was also admitted. Colleges are looking for community members–if your particular talent fills a need/place in the community, I think you have a shot. It CERTAINLY never hurts to try.</p>
<p>how many of you (your kids) who are non-music majors continue play music in college? do schools like ivies encourage that or the study load is too heavy?</p>
<p>luv2sk8 - My son is in two choral groups and a sub-set of each group (4 total). He practices about 20 hours a week. He is a music major (or at least minor), but his practices have nothing to do with the major. He would like to practice on his own about an hour a day, but usually doesn’t.</p>
<p>His school (an Ivy) definitely encourages students to get involved in ECs of various sorts and most are involved in two or three. In addition to music he also studies Tae Kwan Do about 4 to 8 hours a week. Things got a little hectic around exam time!</p>
<p>Hat, thank you for posting here! idk, i don’t practice that much. i do two instruments. i was pushed by my parents when i was little, just started to push myself lately. (actually lokking back, i was glad i was pushed when i didn’t know better.) i LOVE music, more than i love to skate. - i think it’s fair to say i like to skate b/c i love music, and move with it. but i don’t think i’d like to major music. i prefer some other humanity areas. i appreciate your post in the other place. it gives me some ideas and a goal to work on. and i certainly hope to do something musical when i finally go to college.</p>