How stupid is it to major in engineering at Brown, Dartmouth, or Yale?

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<p>“…[P]eople who don’t think they ate better than everyone else.”</p>

<p>I was pretty sure when I was at Cornell that I ate better than people who went to other schools, due to the salutary influence of the Hotel School.</p>

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<p>confidentialcoll, you (and your “friends” who attend Michigan) are wrong when it comes to Ross or Michigan. Only Harvard and Wharton can truly claim to be more effective than Ross at placing students in major IBanks. Dartmouth is certainly formidable, but so is Ross. </p>

<p>You posted links to McKinsey and JP Morgan. Last year, in the height of the Economic crisis, Ross managed to place 9 students at JP Morgan and 5 at McKinsey. That’s pretty impressive considering Ross only has 350 students per class. Booz and Bain hired 5 others, and Citigroup, Credit Suisse, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs each hired at least 5 undergrads. UBS and Deutschbank also hired students. </p>

<p>Like I said, 2009 was a horrible year, not just for Ross, but for all universities. I don’t expect 2010 to be much better. However, when major Wall Street firms hire again, Ross is inevitably be among the few programs that major firms will target. For example, in 2008, before the meltdown, JPM hired 13 Ross undergrads. UBS hired 11 and CS hired 10. Lehman (RIP) hired 9, Morgan Stanley hired 7, as did Deutschebank. Even Goldman Sachs, which prefers LSA majors, hired 5, as did Citigroup. That’s 70 (in a class of 350 students) undergrads who ended up at the very more exclusive IBanks in a single year. Major consulting firms such as Bain, BCG, Booz, McKinsey, Mercer and Oliver Wyman also hired a significant number. 2008 was not an exception mind you. As you can see from the links below, 2007 and 2006 were just as impressive. It is important to note that many Ross students are interested in the Manufacturing/Technology sectors. Altogether, fewer than 50% of Ross students are interested in careers in IBanking and/or Management Consulting. That is not the case at schools like Dartmouth, where the majority of students interested in the corporate world dream of working in a major Wall Street firm.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2009.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2008.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2008.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2007.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2007.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2006.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2006.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And for the record, McKinsey definitely recruits on campus. In fact, McKinsey and Goldman Sachs recruit more heavily from Michigan LSA than they do from Ross.</p>

<p>If you are going to make a claim that Columbia and Dartmouth are much more highly recruited than Ross, please feel free to share the data to support your claim.</p>

23

<p>Your numbers don’t tell me much (other than Mckinsey hired 5 undergrads which is pretty impressive). If you re-read my post, I said that the most coveted divisions at top investment banks will mostly recruit on campus at Yale/Dartmouth/Columbia over Ross. I say this from comparing positions available to an undergrad friend at U Mich and Columbia/Dartmouth. But basically I would expect Ross to place many students at top banks because their business degrees must be useful for something, but the devil is in the detail: are they being put in operations and middle-office positions in Detroit or front office (banking, trading, private wealth management etc.) in new york? This makes a big difference to year end bonuses, exit opportunities and long term earning potential.</p>

<p>No school website will offer this level of detail so I cannot prove this to you, but one way to check is to look at recruiting calendars on company websites if they have position listed. Obviously some Michigan kids will get into top divisions at top banks, but if those divisions do not recruit on campus, then the Michigan student has made it there because s/he is an outlier and not because the university gave him/her an advantage through a relationship with that division. First hand, I have seen pretty average students at Columbia like ~3.4 gpa receive consultant positions at Booz or investment banking positions at Barclays (through campus recruiting not contacts, these kids were middle class), there’s no way they could have done this had these divisions not actively recruited them on campus.</p>

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<p>confidentialcoll, if you cannot prove it, why post it? You are stating opinion…and rather insulting opinion at that. According to you, Ross students are hired for their technical skills to serve as back-office stooges in Detroit. That is not the case. In fact, from my experience (and I have actually worked for major IBanks and recruited for them, so I actually know what I am saying), many (if not a majority) of the Ross students who join IBanks are hired into front-office positions in NYC.</p>

<p>Furthermore, like I said, all major IBanks and Management Consulting firms actively recruit undergrads on campus. I am not sure who told you they don’t, but whoever it is lied. Those links you provided are, as one would expect, neither accurate nor complete. Take my word for it, Ross is a major hunting ground for IBanks and Management Consulting firms.</p>

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<p>I have a few friends - as an example - who were engineers at Dartmouth. Many went onto Wall Street. More than a few went straight into Venture Capital or went after a couple years on the street. Some went into high profile consulting such as energy consulting. Some went to law school, then become patent lawyers, etc. Some went into software. Those that wanted to be actual engineers tended to go to top 5 engineering grad schools. </p>

<p>The truth is that engineering itself is a less lucrative profession, relatively, to these other areas. If you want any of the above the Ivies get you there. It seems most students prefer this path.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how many of you are including computer science under engineering, but all three of B/D/Y have first-rate computer science programs.</p>

27

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</p>

<p>Check out “Wall Street Oasis” for starters.</p>

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<p>B/D/Y do have very strong comp sci programs, but definitely not “first rate”</p>

<p>the first rate ones would be</p>

<p>Standford, CMU, Berkeley, MIT

  • slight gap
    Cornell, UIUC,
  • slight gap
    others</p>
29

<p>hey what a serendipity. my roommate wants to transfer to Yale, Brown or Dartmouth for computer engineering although the CompE department here is one of the best (UIUC) LOL.　Ｇｉｍｍｅ　ａ　ｂｒｅａｋ</p>

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<p>Dartmouth has a great and popular engineering program. They first award a BA in engineering (majoring in engineering) and most engineering students stay for 1-2 extra terms to get their BE. It is liber-artsy, meaning you don’t specialize into a subfield of engineering until a later point than you would at other schools. You also get the resources of Tuck (Dartmouth’s top-ranked business school) and Thayer (the grad school/ engineering dept), which has a wide range (PhD, MS, MEM) of graduate engineering degrees.</p>

31

<p>It really depends on whether you want to work in engineering or investment banking after you graduate.</p>