How to avoid being one of the stories of getting rejected with high stats

@Boomer1964 Yes, I read OP’s post carefully and am aware of her current status. I am commenting on my observation of her, and others’, posts here on CC related to the perception that UF’s admissions policies are unpredictable for very high stats kids. Are those perceptions incorrect? Could be. A luke-warm LOR, a bad grade in a key class (which would impact GPA, by the way), or just a poorly completed application could keep a high stats kid from any college. But those are all rare events; the sentiment expressed here (which could be based on inaccurate rumors among parents throughout FL) is that UF’s admissions have gone off the rails in terms of being predictable for very high stats kids.

GT is a FAR smaller school than UF ( for a state half of FL’s population) and it has 60% Instate students. The ‘supply’ for those slots is much smaller and Georgia residents have a legitimate gripe if qualified students are routinely rejected to benefit OOS students. Same for any other state.

One-third of every senior in our HS applied to tOSU in the past five years. 79% of those applying to ANY four year school applied to tOSU. That is about 700 students in the last five years. Zero students in the top 10% of their class, or by SAT/ACT score, or by state-wise GPA were rejected. None. The OP’s daughter would need to slice about 100 points off of her SAT score and .6 off of her GPA in order to be near any danger zone. And tOSU’s average SAT/ACT scores are a tad higher than UF’s, and 30% of the undergrads are OOS. But UF rejects a higher proportion of applicants than tOSU does (much bigger state and somewhat smaller school). I don’t see any reason for UF to resort to ‘holistic’ admissions because they have SO MANY applicants like the OP’s D that they just need an additional filter. The stats don’t support that conclusion at all.

I am not picking on UF, nor trying to praise tOSU. I am just highlighting a practice that, if true, I think is wrong and something I would be pushing against if in my state. If the administration is trying to raise the stature of UF at the cost of its core mission, then I believe citizens have a gripe. You are supporting that school with your tax dollars. Is UF the only public college in the US doing this (if indeed true)? Heck, no. And could the state legislature be fully aware and supportive of this? Maybe. Perhaps they wish to beef up the OOS (and full OOS tuition payments) for UF so that it requires less state $ support. And one could argue that is what is good for the state…spending less money on its state flagship. But that will come at the cost of more and more high stats students not getting to attend. The residents of FL need to be ok with that, certainly not me.

Because of lots of factors, state flagships across the US are becoming more and more selective. That is a simple function of supply and demand. They are more popular with the current generation of prospects for many reasons. But some flagships are slowly raising the strength (as measured by stats) of their incoming classes over time, and some are being aggressive with classic ‘stature-raising’ tactics, used successfully by many private colleges, in order to increase revenue (from both instate and OOS students). The very human desire to want something more if it is perceived to be rare or difficult to obtain is leveraged by colleges all over the US, every day.

There are lots of good reasons for a college to raise its stature, hence attractiveness and willingness to pay, for applicants. Life is much easier for the administration of a college which has won that game. Being the head of enrollment at an elite university is FAR easier than at a public institution with a mission to serve the interests of the state overall. In fact, the job is radically different in these two circumstances. But the consequences for future prospective students are enormously different under these two scenarios. Parents should be paying attention to the enrollment trends at their state flagship and asking if it is what they want to see, IMHO. One could make an argument, either way.

@boomer1964 DD would absolutely love to have the opportunity to apply outside of Florida and I’d love to let her. But my out of pocket would have to be the same as a Florida school which would be virtually impossible unless we targeted schools that are ranked significantly lower that UF or FSU. We have 100% bright futures and prepaid 4 yrs tuition and fees, plus 1yr dorms. So as of right now she is applying to just UF,FSU and UCF. If anyone has ideas of any good schools that would likely make that happen for us, I would love to hear suggestions. It basically means full tuition and fees at a minimum.

The OP is asking what she can do to help her child get accepted. I think we have all pondered this question. There are many articles about schools tracking so as stated it’s not a bad idea. If anything the kid will learn something about the school

1500 and over on the sat would be nice
Maybe a few sessions with a private tutor to hone down on problem area’s. Like 3-4 sessions since she did well already.
When we visited schools both my kids set up their own meetings with heads of departments or the like. This helped them learn somethings about the school. Plus they got to state in their essays that they met with Professor x in their essays and what they learned from that. If that doesn’t show interest not sure what does then. We prearranged these on the school visit days. Since according to my kids, the tours were basically all the same and I agreed. We would do part of them then excuse ourselves to go to the meetings with the professors.

Essays, make them personal, unique and interesting. Don’t write about cliche topics like “when I went to Europe with my family I volunteered at an orphanage…”, just don’t do that. Lol…

People will say the essays can be about anything and just written well but don’t you think the reviewers get tired reading the same topics all day. If yours can be more unique that will peak interest. You only get like 10 - 20 seconds to grab their attention… So do it. My son had 3 topics to pick from. It was 100% which one to choose and it took him awhile to agree with everyone else they said this is a great essay… It was him and couldn’t be anyone else. Same for my daughters essay. Each had the properties as suggested above.

If your not curing cancer anytime soon then yes Luck!! ???

Good luck.

One other thing. On the essays learn about what the school is looking for. For Michigan their moto is leader and best. My sons essay had some of those features in his essay. Some schools are all about volunteering… Point is learn about what is important to school. Their mission statement can be telling.

At most schools being undecided is the number one major… Lol… Don’t think it will hurt. Don’t try to tell them what they want to hear be authentic about it. This will come through in the essays.

Thank you! Good advice. ??

@flprepaidmom I think you have gotten good advice here, and plenty of it. UF will only look at grades through junior year, so now is the time to put the pedal to the floor and try to squeeze as much out of the GPA as possible. UF will look at the senior year schedule as part of the rigor assessment, so she should continue to take challenging courses. Definitely take the official tour and i would also look at the UF CPET pre-college programs to see if she is interested in any of them for the summer before senior year. Both of my kids did them and loved them, and I think it helps. As for the SAT score, it is excellent but if she is a junior, she has time to try to raise it. Why not? Also, consider trying the ACT. My son did significantly better on the ACT than the SAT and UF now superscores ACT as well. I know the kids get sick of taking the tests, but every little bit helps. The daughter of a friend of ours got a merit scholarship from UF (a rarity) and she had a 1520. She took the SAT 5 times – clearly worth the effort.

Yield protection is an interesting one. Part of me believes it exists but it may be a byproduct of UF’s holistic approach and where it draws its lines for each individual high school. A young man who was in the top 10% of my daughter’s graduating class and senior class president did not get into UF but was admitted to West Point. Clearly, UF had an issue with him, maybe a lousy essay? Or was he yield protected? A girl from a top private school got into Georgetown but was rejected by both FSU and UF. Parents claimed yield protection, but maybe she just didn’t outshine the competition for UF in her high school? Is that yield protection or a quota issue, both of which aren’t supposed to exist?

One last point on demonstrated interest, I made sure that my kids put somewhere in their UF app that UF was their top choice, and that if accepted, they would attend. My daughter is at UF now and my son will learn his fate in February.

Best of luck with it.

Wow, I am shocked that with those stats she’d be rejected at a state school. I had no idea UF would reject someone with even half those stats.

If your school district has Naviance, you can look at prior years admissions from your high school. I’ve also heard rumors about high stats rejects from UF but the Naviance charts helped show that these must be quite rare.

There is no other way to cut it, whether anyone believes in rankings or not, UF is currently ranked 34 in the country. FSU is ranked 57. USF is now ranked 104. All of these schools are now in the category of being very selective and the competition for acceptance is steep. There are plenty of kids with similar stats applying to these schools and schools such as this are cherry-picking their students. As I mentioned before, the fact that the State of Florida offers what pretty much amounts to a free education, makes it even more competitive to get into these schools.

As far as Yield protection, indeed a very unfair notion, but it is widespread and unfair. I was just reading how a kid from Chicago was FLAT OUT DENIED admissions to the University of Illinois during the EA rounds. with nothing but perfect scores all around. Incredible!!! I heard Georgia deferred and denied many students with ACT scores in 32/34 range. However, there are a lot of factors we just don’t know. Was there a C somewhere along the line. How about errors in the essays or not being passionate enough? We will never know for sure

@Flprepaidmom “But my out of pocket would have to be the same as a Florida school which would be virtually impossible unless we targeted schools that are ranked significantly lower that UF or FSU”

It is not always about ranking. I know you had mentioned that as of now, your daughter is undecided. But let’s say that she wants to study Journalism. Well, Mizzou is one of the top Universities for Journalism. How about writing, IOWA is one of the tops for that. Meteorology? How about the University of Oklahoma. All of these schools are lower ranked than UF and FSU, but with the kind of stats your kid has, she would be able to attain an amazing scholarship and along with Florida Pre Paid, you would be close to what it will cost you at a Florida school. By no means, I am suggesting that these are fits for your daughter. Just trying to point out about other situations where a lower-ranked school might not tell the whole story.

Your daughter is a junior? She’s doing everything right, she just needs to continue to work hard. Retake the SAT (It doesn’t hurt), keep up her grades, and KEEP working on her non-academic activities. She should continue her volunteer work, etc over the summer.

About 50% of admissions is based on grades, the other 50% is based on ECs, etc. UF admission is very holistic, as compared to most state schools (especially other Florida schools).

Several factors are out of your control, don’t worry about them. UF does track attendance to it’s admission tours, as a way to measure interest, so it’s good that she’s attended one.

Being in the top 25% (academics) for admissions isn’t just about SAT/ACT scores or even GPA. It’s also involves class rigor and class rank. How you do versus your peers in HS. Last year, 76.9% of admitted students where in the top 10% of their class. We really don’t know all of the reasons why a student, with top 25% stats get’s rejected. Perhaps it’s class rigor? Perhaps the school isn’t viewed as being very challenging. Perhaps they are not in the top 10% for their school? Who knows. And that’s all before taking into account non-academic factors.

@boomer1964. ‘We will never know for sure.‘ For any particular case, you are right. We can never know why a kid is rejected from anywhere.

But, a college which is regularly yield protecting has Naviance statistics which reveal the practice. Especially at state flagships where the number of applicants is high. For tOSU, there is a green rectangle, with not a single red spec in it. Within the mainly ‘red check’ areas there are a few green checks here and there, suggesting some holistic reviews and/or hooked kids. My review of an OOS flagship (intentionally not named) which also has a high app level from our HS shows a very different pattern (a square of dense green, surrounded by red checks. ). Now, I have no problem at all with an public school practicing yield control on applicants from OOS. Point is their practice is no secret. We hear about one-offs all the time, but the real data is available for those who want to see it. Just sayin’.

Your rankings are a little misleading because it does not take into account all U.S. colleges.

Forbes is a better indicator of “real” ranking:

UF #70 (40% acceptance rate)

FSU #151 (50%)

UCF #242 (50%)

@socaldad2002 That makes much more sense. I was sitting here thinking how can U Chi and U F be the same level. A 40% acceptance rate is not a highly competitive school, IMHO.

This whole college application process is nothing like it was when I went to UF. I think the application was a 2 or 3 page fill-in-the blank application with no essay. I got in and did great at UF. Did great at UF law, also.

Son has applied. We are OOS at this point, but his mom and dad have four combined degrees from UF. My blood is actually orange and blue.

Son has a 1550 SAT, 4.0 UW and a 4.825 W (using what appears to be UF’s calculation methodology). He had 10 AP’s prior to senior year (nine 5’s and one 4). He took 2 more AP’s in the fall, an honors course, and a dual enrollment at GT (Linear Algebra). Got A’s in all of them. Is taking 3 AP’s and another GT dual enrollment (Multivariable Calculus) in the Spring. Has a lot of extra-curricular activities (sort of across the spectrum). Is a National Merit Semifinalist (likely finalist).

After reading this message board, I’m nervous.

@socaldad2002 These are not my rankings. Again whether anyone cares about rankings or not, these rankings are based on the latest US News and probably the ones that the general population including the schools themselves love to fight for. Having said that, my comments are not meant to be discouraging or to argue about rankings or which school is better, etc. I am also not disagreeing with any of the comments above. Just pointing out the realities and the madness of admissions. UNPREDICTABLE!

Keep in mind that my experience with UF was not a positive one. As a Florida Prepaid account holder, I actually feel that by asking an OOS student whether they have a qualifying account, they can easily deny a “qualified” applicant based on the fact that they might want a full paying OOS instead.

UF has become a selective school. Obviously not at the level of an Ivy or a Duke, but selective enough to create disappointing results for many high Stat applicants, otherwise the question would have not been raised. The OP or anyone in a similar situation can only control what they can control and that is to put themselves in their best position for admission. I do not think the OP will have any issues getting admitted to some if not all of the targeted schools. But it is always a good idea to have a “B” plan just in case.

With UF only accepting 12-15% of OOS, it’s really anyone’s guess whether your extremely qualified son will make the cut? Likely, but you never know.

UNC-CH is another state flagship that caters to their in-state students (which I believe is the right approach). The UCs (CA) a few years ago were taking way too many OOS applicants as a money grab and received a lot of push back from residents.

@Bgatorsmith I highly doubt UF will be turning down national merit finalists.

You brought up rankings. I just wanted to point out, since most people who cite them don’t realize this: US News rankings leave out many excellent colleges in their national university rankings (e.g. LAC, very good regional colleges, the service academies, etc.) which really limits their rankings “worthiness”.

If we are going to care at all about rankings (there are legitimate cons to even having them) but at least include ALL of the colleges in the analysis. Otherwise the data is garbage in, garbage out IMO.

UF is a very good college, but like many colleges (especially state schools) has gotten more competitive as the cost of college for privates and OOS colleges has become too expensive for most applicants. For example, there use to be a time when San Diego State University was a safety college for any CA student with a 2.5 gpa and a pulse; today you need a 3.7uw and a strong test score to be competitive.

Out of state acceptance rate for FSU is at 19.5 %. https://news.fsu.edu/news/university-news/2019/02/04/florida-state-shatters-admission-applications-record-again/

And, of course, another factor not mention is the coalition and common apps. The increase in applications to al the schools can make admissions even more competitive due to the larger pool of applicants. Also, UF is starting to Superscore the ACT just like FSU, It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the current cycle of admissions.