How to Degrade Parents in New Jersey

Parent Cafe
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<p>"In fact, Mr. Frye has not penalized students whose parents have told him outright that they will not post responses. But in one case, when the parents neither did the homework nor explained why, a student did lose points — but not enough to lower the student’s overall grade, he said. "</p>

<p>You know, I went back and reread the article closely. It seems the majority of parents approve of the idea, he has the support of administration which is rare. And as you can see from the article, his “threat” of it effecting grades is a paper lion. Parents easily can opt out just by saying so. So is he “really” punishing students? Or is he as mean as me saying “don’t make me pull this car over?” :wink: </p>

<p>Having a similar experience alot of his parents have had with mine on her homework assignment, it is true at HS level the conversations go deeper than how was your day and “fine”. It’s another way to deepen school conversations with your kid. While I don’t agree with the threat aspect, it looks like the results… work.</p>

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<p>Wow. If a teacher took a demeaning “don’t make me pull this car over” attitude to me, a parent, I’d have a serious, serious issue with that.</p>

<p>And, do we know this really doesn’t affect grades? Plenty of grading is subjective. Additionally, is it advertised that parents can opt out with “no penalty” or does that only happen with those who take the chance, not knowing if they’re hurting their kids?</p>

<p>Demeaning, infantilizing, insulting, no matter what the parameters are. the end does not justify the means.</p>

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<p>While I do not live in Montclair, my S had virtually the same assignment adn the parents had to find their favorite poem and comment on it. I will agree at first I was rather annoyed, but it did provide a great opening for discussion that S was very excited to share.</p>

<p>It if became a weekly activity I am sure I would revolt! But it was much better then those darn poster projects that require photographs with the 2nd and 3rd grader, or the rediculous alphabet book that I had to do with the kindergartner:D</p>

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<p>I actually see the opt-out capability as in line with what I assume his point is here: force the parents to take action, either to affirm their participation or to opt out, but force them to take action so that he knows they are involved in their children’s education.</p>

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<p>

Off topic, but this reminded me of my D’s project in an early grade (see the thread about differences among our children - this was the D who did all her projects alone, and we never knew about them until they were returned) - I was dismayed when her project came home, and I discovered that she had raided the family photo albums and cut up (in irregular, 2nd or 3rd grade cutting) a bunch of my favorite photos! Some were given to me, so I didn’t even have negatives.</p>

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<p>Oh no, not again. Dissenting opinion.</p>

<p>First on Montclair: Yes, I bow to those of you who live next door as having more info., but two favorite first cousins live their with families. One has a son who has severe asperger’s (his own aid), and the other family has desperately committed computer geek and aspiring operatic mezzo. The Montclair magnet system was great for these three very different kids who would not have found the same opportunities in our very good public.
In addition, their parents, well one set anyway, felt non-elitist because kids were in public school where dissegregation is apparently working. The other family is not wealthy and could not have considered private school, even though Asperger’s son might have benefitted.</p>

<p>So sometimes I was quite envious of what the school was providing, though my kids did attend an excellent public school with other interesting attributes not relevant to this thread.</p>

<p>About assigning parents homework: Here’s my take. How many of them are actually doing the homework already? Probably lots of them. This way the teacher has basis to decide if junior is actually doing his/her writing. He has samples of kids writing in class and parents writing.</p>

<p>I would warrant that this was the real motiviation, although mutton is dressed up as lamb. What’s he going to say, “I know you all cheat, so here’s my way of making sure your kids actually learn”?</p>

<p>I’m sure the kids whose parents refuse are not penalized, and the same purpose is served, because who would do kids homework surreptitiously in this context?</p>

<p>Yeah, this is an overzealous approach, but chalk it up to youth.</p>

<p>As for getting graded, bring it on. I’d grade right back. </p>

<p>BTW: I loved Beowulf and think Angelina Jolie may make a very credible monster. Seamus Heaney’s translation with a CD of him reading the text is quite beautiful and moving.</p>

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<p>MM–loads of people I know adore the Montclair school system. It’s just not my style.</p>

<p>I think, actually, your interpretation is even more demeaning–I do homework to prove i’m not cheating on my kids’ work. Nice, very nice. what a lovely teacher/parent partnership. (And if I opt out, it puts me on notice to stop my cheatin’ ways?)</p>

<p>No thanks.</p>

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<p>I guess I wasn’t evaluating it, just trying to offer an opinion about true motivation.</p>

<p>I can see your interpretation of this as even more demeaning. Sure, that makes sense.</p>

<p>For some reason, I don’t have a negative gut response to this, but I did mean it was to make sure children do their work, not punish parents.</p>

<p>I can’t tell you how many papers I’ve received over the years clearly done by parents. Many of the kids think this is acceptable. Don’t ask me why.</p>

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<p>“Wow. If a teacher took a demeaning “don’t make me pull this car over” attitude to me, a parent, I’d have a serious, serious issue with that.”</p>

<p>Obviously you are a far more serious parent than I am…:wink: You know I have a show at 7 and 9, remember to tip your barmaid. Each show is different. </p>

<p>“And, do we know this really doesn’t affect grades? Plenty of grading is subjective. Additionally, is it advertised that parents can opt out with “no penalty” or does that only happen with those who take the chance, not knowing if they’re hurting their kids?”</p>

<p>I dunno, my guess if it “really” effected a kid’s grade the parent would be in there demanding their pint of blood and the administration would disipline the teacher. Your po’d over a what “if”, What “if” aliens invaded while the parent was going into complain? </p>

<p>It is pretty clear it’s a false threat. He more or less is checking to see what parents care enought to agree or for that matter disagree with what he’s doing. He’s not punishing for disagreement. He’s checking to see who paying attiention. It also tells him (including the “no, are you serious?” parents) what students are getting support at home and who aren’t. And before you get your cockels in a uproar, the support ISN’T based on agreement with his assignment. The one he docked a few points for didn’t respond either way and I am guessing didn’t respond AFTER he knocked some points away. </p>

<p>You know, I can tell you more than a few kids I have known (and gone to a funeral or two) who never had a parent care enough about what they were doing to even disagree. The parents are surprized the kid ends up in jail, drug rehab or DEAD. It’s a shock to them because they simply HAVEN’T paid attiention. As I said in the first couple of posts, these folks aren’t the people here. Some care enough to get ****ed about the idea and would more than likely get in the guy’s face and tell him exactly what they think of his idea. But don’t you get it? that’s one of the things he’s looking for. </p>

<p>“Demeaning, infantilizing, insulting, no matter what the parameters are. the end does not justify the means.”</p>

<p>How is it truly demeaning? really, honestly, how is it demeaning? There’s a bigger picture you may be missing.</p>

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<p>What about immigrant families where the kids are the first generation to have meaningful literacy in English?</p>

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<p>To add, </p>

<p>Demeaning is attending a 16 year old’s funeral after he was accidently shot in the face at somebody’s drug house. Knowing that kid for 6 years coaching and watching him dissappear into the woodwork because of “loving”, uninvolved parents. </p>

<p>Infantile, is going to a 19 year old’s funeral after he was shot in his sleep by a jealous boyfriend. </p>

<p>insulting is watching a 16 year old go to drug rehab, while mom and dad hit the casino.</p>

<p>There’s alot worse happening to kids outthere then a teacher’s assignment. There are far worse things happening to our children’s generation than asking a parent to participate in the educational process. </p>

<p>Maybe outrage should be saved for the truly outrageous things that happen to kids. This isn’t one of them.</p>

<p>If this really is an outrage, take a second and realize how blessed your life is, that this is what gets your goat. </p>

<p>I’ve watched kids fall by the wayside by univolved parents. Probably many of you have too. Our teachers see it every day. </p>

<p>Children are too easy to have and far to difficult to raise. Not everybody does it as good as you folks (even the ones I disagree with) and sometimes when you look around, you wonder why some had kids as they are not even bothered enough to care what the teacher does. When the kid fails, the system failed them. really? </p>

<p>I don’t agree 100% with the guy, but I don’t fault him either.</p>

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<p>Opie, I don’t even know how to respond to your dichotomy of this teacher’s questionable methods vs. the strawman spector of kids’ dying, as if objecting to one leads to the other, as if there’s any connection at all, rather than a trumping of anyone else’s argument with cheap theatrics. </p>

<p>Sometimes I don’t think we’re speaking the same language. Yes, believe me, I know how dire are the lives of many children. That’s precisely why I think it’s creepy to use those tragedies in this context.</p>

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<p>Really…I don’t see how those tragedies relate either. Also, tragedies like those happen when parents are VERY involved as well. My D is going to a memorial service for her team captain at her Ivy League college tomorrow. She committed suicide. This girl’s parents were very involved in her life. I saw them every weekend at the collegiate competitions. I saw her dad for a week out west at National Collegiate Championships that I also attended across the country. The girl was a star. All American. All Ivy. I could go on. Very late last night, my D sent me a memorial tribute book she put together that included memories and tributes by all past team members, along with photos that she has had printed at a printers for all at the ceremonies tomorrow in another state. I read it and wept. Someone who was so cared and admired by so many, wasn’t there to read it. I could go on.</p>

<p>Saying there are worse outrages and worse situations…so what? We all know that. We can still comment about this without thinking this is the worst thing ever. </p>

<p>I interpretted others’ comments about it feeling insulting by requiring parents to do the assignments themselves (which is not the same as optional suggestions of how to support what is going on at school), is that what if the parents ARE involved in their kids’ lives…do they want to be told exactly what they have to do to support their kids and then have them hand it in to prove it? This was a requirement for all parents, whether they are already supporting their kids in a myriad of ways or are uninvolved types. So, being told what to do in such specific terms and with required homework assignments to prove the involvement is overkill and demeaning to some parents. </p>

<p>Yes, there are problems for kids whose parents are not involved. There are ways to deal with that already. A teacher can request a meeting with the parents about solving some issue that requires some action on their part as a team solution and so forth. Other support services can also help. But making parents do written assignments, whether or not they are supporting their kids in other ways is just too much. I’d rather the teacher do frequent communications home about what the assignments are about, suggest ways to get involved, even require them to sign off that they read it, then making parents read and write for homework. I am very involved in my kids’ lives but I don’t read their assigned readings and I don’t do my own writing assignments. I am very aware of what they are working on and will talk about it and if they are interested in showing me their paper, I will read it and comment (in HS…they don’t do that in college…they may talk about what they are doing but don’t send me their assignments!!!)</p>

<p>I have seen this on CC before when people are discussing something and then others say “it could be worse!” That’s true. But whatever we are discussing can also matter. </p>

<p>And don’t presume that every kid who kills her/himself didn’t have loving and very involved parents.</p>

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<p>sooz and garland,</p>

<p>READ the article it says right there they can simply opt out by saying so, no harm, no foul. That is why nobody is complaining in his district about it, because they don’t “have” to do it. It’s not required at all, it’s a hook, a gimmick, a sham. </p>

<p>They only thing they sorta have to do is tell him “no thanks”. That is why I am questioning some of the outrage here. It simply isn’t warranted. It’s a false threat with no consquence for saying NO. Do you really think for 5 seconds that he could truly downgrade a student for a parents work? honestly? That would fly anywhere in a public school district? :wink: </p>

<p>I know of private schools that require alot of parents or their kids are turned away, but that’s a private school situation, not public, not subject to district, state and federal quidelines. </p>

<p>"And don’t presume that every kid "</p>

<p>Did say EVERY? When you look into the situations of death, drug and incarcerations do you feel my point is off base? Would you agree that a majority of time, kids in these situations are coming from vacant homelifes. </p>

<p>And, none of the kids I mentioned committed suicide, which is a mental health issue, more than a parent involvement issue. These are more what we called “free range” kids, that is, limited parent involvement or the only parent involvement is violent. </p>

<p>I did not mention suicide, I mentioned murders and accidental shootings because this kid was high running with the wrong kids. Suicides can happen in any household situation. </p>

<p>“I think it’s creepy to use those tragedies in this context.”</p>

<p>I use them because I needed to point out that there are real problems out there, not one where if you read it and apply a little commonsense would see it for what it is… a gimmick. </p>

<p>I apologize for how rude I must sound, but c’mon you’re assuming these parents are sheep in this school district… When does that EVER happen?</p>

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<p>Opie, sorry if you meant murder, not suicide. </p>

<p>Yes, those who have very little parental involvement are at higher risk. But I hate to infer that those who are involved in drugs and such are from homes with uninvolved parents. One of my kids is deeply concerned about a friend who has extremely involved and loving parents who have supported her every endeavor to the utmost. Even very involved and supportive parents can have children who are grappling with some troubles.</p>

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<p>Also, I didn’t see what this teacher was doing as suggesting ideas parents might want to do or providing resources if they wish. I saw it as his assigning these tasks to parents. Maybe the parents have an out that is built into it but given the bulletin board and the teacher checking it, it seems like it would be hard to say “no deal.” That is different than suggestions sent home that the teacher then doesn’t check up on or is not out there for all to see and has no bearing on your child’s grades or anything remotely like that.</p>

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<p>Oh come on, Opie. How do you know nobody in the district is complaining??? The NYT loved the concept, so they found happy parents & interviewed them.</p>

<p>CCSurfer – I agree with your take on this guy! Like Garland, I find it insulting. I tried to take a step back and view this objectively. Perhaps he rubs me the wrong way because I assume I’ve read & written analysis on a heck of a lot more lit than he could possibly have in his young life. I used to make my living as a writer. What I decided to do in order to be objective was pretend he was a science teacher, asking my biomechanical engineer H to hand in 9th grade science assignments. How absurd!</p>

<p>Now, I have enourmous respect for the gifted teachers out there. In fact, son’s 6th grade homeroom teacher is amazing. If she suggested anything, and I mean ANYTHING that fell into the category of a teaching method that might connect with my son, I’d jump right on it. Study sceince while standing on his head & drinking apple juice out of a straw? I’d have my son do it. She’s that good. I’ve even asked her to pass on any tips about parental communication with ADHD children that she feels might be worthwhile. I know she’s the expert., But if she suddenly decided to assign & correct my essays, she’d be completely inappropriate in her reach.</p>

<p>

Montclair has very serious racial tension in the high school. Self-segregation is the reality, despite the praise lavished on the system by the NYT. Steve Colbert and the many mansion-dwelling gazillionaires in town usually send their kids to $20K+ per year Montclair Kimberly Academy.</p>

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<p>sooz,</p>

<p>It’s never “always” or “never” ( :wink: as I use never…) there are exceptions. But I do think you’d agree that the laws of “probability” are stacked against kids whose parents are basically “absent”. Not a person here would fit that mo. That is why I called this group the tip of the iceberg (10% showing,90% hidden). None of us could ever imagine “not” doing for kids. Yet everday there are people out there that see their kids as interfering with their time. </p>

<p>I had one kid in youth soccer who I used to go pick up and take to pratice twice a week because it interferred with his dad’s beer and billards league…
If you asked him, he’d tell you he was a “loving parent”, yet couldn’t find the time to give to his child over himself. Yea, his kid was one that fell by the wayside in HS. I’m sure they think it was somebody else’s fault.</p>

<p>I have lots of stories like that because some adults would not give of themselves to their children. As bad as helicopter parents are supposed to be, they are tolerable in comparison to the adult that doesn’t have time for their kid. </p>

<p>When people ask me how my kids were so successful, the first thing I say is because we were there for them. Games, meets, horse events, spelling bees, knowledge bowls, plays, band concerts…etc… We always let our kids know what they were “doing” was important to us, even if it meant sitting through a 3 hour swim meet for 35 seconds of swimming. Or 14 hours of sitting at county fair barns (with all those wonderful smells) for 15 minutes of riding.
Our kids knew if they looked in the stands, we’d be there. Even when they told us we didn’t have to. Boy, that’s when they really smile and light up.
I’m sure just about every parent here does the same thing and has a similar story about watching their kids. That’s why some find it offensive that a requirement like that exists… “why on earth would a parent need it?” </p>

<p>Again, I don’t support 100% this teacher’s tactics because for one, it’s phoney. You shouldn’t make a threat you aren’t willing or are unable to complete. In the same token, it’s somebody who thinks that it is important for HS kids to talk with their parents and basically he’s a “Linda Richmond”
(snl mike meyers coffee chat character) getting parents and their children to “dicuss”. Why I get “verklempt” just thinking about it…;)</p>

<p>In our “inherit the wind” assignment my D loved the back and forth with me. Maybe because it was a situation where the daddy and daughter hats were off and “we” were discussing the questions the teacher posed for the assignment as equals. </p>

<p>I actually had a very strong dislike for that teacher prior as we knew each other previously and worried he’d take it out on my D. In fact, I turned out to be the lesser person because he was an excellent teacher and I had every reason to dislike the idea because of the educator. Instead it changed my opinion of the guy because maybe I was selling his skills short based on a baised view from something else.</p>

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<p>"Oh come on, Opie. How do you know nobody in the district is complaining??? "</p>

<p>And your certain they are because???;)</p>

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<p>"Maybe the parents have an out that is built into it but given the bulletin board and the teacher checking it, it seems like it would be hard to say “no deal.” </p>

<p>Sooz, </p>

<p>No where in the article does it mention he posts anything in the classroom. Where did you find that? I understand what you are implying and I agree, that would be poor form, but I didn’t find it in the article. Can you show me where he is posting this information in the classroom?</p>