how to evaluate a kid without standard tests such as SAT/PSAT/SSAT

Parents Forum
41

@Pizzagirl “What do you need beyond what his grades in school tell you?”

I agree that grades are the main metric, but there are a few more things I would want to consider.

One is tracking.
How is he tracking vs. other students? If there are 3 English tracks and 3 math tracks, which one is he in. An A in the middle track is not the same as an A in the top tracks. What math and English is he on track for in 9th grade? Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II/Trig? Is he on track to be in mostly Honors/AP courses, or primarily regular courses in high school?

Another input is standardized testing that he has already taken.
How is he doing on standardized test relative to his classmates? Tippy top, above average, average, below average?

Third additional input is feedback from conferences.
What do the teachers say about him? Is he attentive or distracted? Lazy or hard working? Engaged? Likes school? Sociable? Gets strong A’s effortlessly is different from gets A’s by working hard. “He is a solid A student” is different from, “He is the best student I have had in 25 years of teaching.”

Fourth additional input is personal observations from what I see at home.
What are your observations?

No one input tells the whole story. I am looking for consistency across the inputs. When the teachers see what you see, and the tracking and tests support that, you begin to get a clear view of where things stand at the moment.

@Pizzagirl “…your job at this point is to encourage exploration and a love of learning, not to identify specific areas to hyper focus on.”

This is exactly right. Teach them that all subjects are about effort and not talent and that they need to work hard. The only time I would hyper-focus on an area in middle school is if they were weak in reading, writing or math. I would focus on strengthening that area. When they are older, they will need to play to their strengths, but Middle school is a time to identify and bolster areas of relative weakness in critical subjects.

42

I want to update how I can know my own kid better, sort of answering my own OP question. It turns out many of you are right that I should’ve known my own kid better if I paid more attention.

The school year is ending and my kid is bringing home his year long school work that I usually pay no attention to. Sifting through it I now see what types of questions he missed in a course over the year. I do wish however the school keeps track of his yearly progress over the years, not just the final grades, for later use by careless parents like me.

43

Looking at work on a regular basis is really the only way to get the kind of detailed picture you seem to be seeking. A course grade is just a summary and isn’t going to reveal if your kid is a great writer but a mediocre speller. Standardized tests, particularly the college admissions tests which OP mentioned, are pretty narrowly focused on certain skills, as well as rewarding quick and accurate work over creativity and depth of understanding.

44

It seems to me you’re over thinking this and there are just a couple points of focus: 1. saving $ for college, 2. nurturing your child. Focus on the positive, the successful study strategies, the hard work even if they didn’t get a good grade. Focus on encouraging the development of good study habits by adding as much enjoyment to the process as possible. As children mature interests shift over time. Kids gravitate toward positive emotional experience. Don’t tell them they’re smart or not. They’ll figure out what they’re good at, interested in. Pay attention. Children know if you’re paying attention or not. Don’t worry. Relax.

45

Ok this is a 4 month late reply but… yes, @eiholi they were useless.

It tells you how you’re doing compared to other students. How other students are doing are irrelevant. My parents figured out how I was doing by looking at my report card or working with me.

They were especially useless for me personally because I scored in the 99th percentile on just about everything. As for correlating later in life, I scored something like 97th percentile on the ACT and I honestly can’t remember what I got on the GRE and that was only last year. It was enough to get me into my top choice PhD program and that’s all I care about.

And sorry, I’m not going to go dig out a test I took ~15-20 years (not to mention several moves) ago. Besides, I’m nearly positive my parents tossed them shortly after receiving them. Furthermore, tracking scores from one test to another is problematic since you’re comparing yourself to different groups of people each time. IOWAs = elementary school students (for me); ACT = largely college-bound students; GRE = graduate school-bound students.

46

^^ A particular test may not tell a lot about a kid but it helps us put a finger on his/her uniqueness as a human being. The other day I listened to a Radiolab podcast ( [listen here](http://www.radiolab.org/story/96056-your-future-marshmallow/) ) where a marshmallow test at age 4 may tell 200 points apart on SAT scores. They claim

So we have a lot to learn about our kids that some may say we won’t know and just wait and see. In reality predisposition of whatever or knowledge at a certain age may or may not weigh much in one’s life course.

Anyone knows other little tests that we can use to know our kids better?

47

Doesn’t you kids school do state mandated testing every 2 years?

48

There comes a point when a student actually needs standardized test scores to start thinking about what colleges they will consider applying to.

In my experience, that point comes in 10th grade. A 10th grader who has gotten mostly As doesn’t know, until the first standardized test scores come in, whether he/she has a legitimate chance at highly selective schools or should aim lower.

Fortunately, it is now common for 10th graders to take the PSAT. If the student has already completed geometry (which is on the PSAT), the score obtained in 10th grade can be very helpful. For a student who is still in geometry, the math score may not be so useful because there may be questions on the test that the student can’t answer yet, but the verbal or reading or writing or whatever they’re calling it these days sections are still informative.

I think the OP and the OP’s kid can wait until 10th grade for this information without losing anything important.

As for course placement, the best placement is usually but not always the highest one that works out well for the student. Usually, a kid who can handle honors English should be in honors English, not regular English. There are exceptions. For example, at my son’s high school, honors Spanish was dominated by heritage speakers (kids with some knowledge of the language from outside of school but who were not fluent in it – the fluent kids had a separate class). Kids who were not heritage speakers couldn’t keep up with them, so they ended up in regular Spanish even if they were excellent students of the subject.

49

I like the standardized tests only from the perspective of how the kids fall nationally. What I learned was that our school system was neither grade inflationary nor grade deflationary. The kids standardized scores generally reflected their accomplishments/GPA/rank at their particular school. The Iowa basics or CAT or whatever is used in a particular elementary schools will do the same…show where a student is trending.

So I used them slightly differently than Romanig’s parents in that I was more concerned that they were learning in their particular schools what they needed to learn, that the school was not grade inflationary which could hurt them in college admissions and that they were ranked about where they should be (that they weren’t slacking etc.).

50

For all of their real and perceived faults, the standardized tests are still the best method to determine how your child stacks up against those in other areas. I just wish there was some way to stop all test prep and just go off of the students’ intellect and the schools normal curriculum.

51

I like that the kids can take a one test prep class at our high school and be done with prep as it does help them with the rhythm of the test. I would like to see the number of “tries” limited and I do think reporting all scores is valuable. Really, the bottom line is the scores should be reflective of the student’s high school achievement, you really shouldn’t see wild differences in national percentage vs. GPA and class ranking, etc. in a public school setting in the absence of extenuating circumstances.

52

If you want to see how your child does against other students, then look at opportunities that compare him to other students. If he’s the last to be chosen on the sports teams, he is probably not a budding athlete. If he is often given the lead in the school play, he may have some acting/ public speaking talent.

Where is he placed in relation to other students? The advanced, average or slow group?

What are your and the other parent’s talents/ careers? Does your child show strengths in those areas?

What does your child do in his/ her spare time? I know two children who were fascinated with ancient Egypt and they both majored in international relations. One works at an NGO and the other wrote a history book.

Finally, why is this so important? Is it okay for your child to be average and happy? It is sometimes quite a burden we parents put on very talented children or they put on themselves. Truth be told, it’s not a bad life to go to the state university and major in something that earns you a solid, professional life and marry the person you met in sociology class and have or not have 2.3 kids, as you see fit. I have brilliant people in my family and they have invariably done good things with their lives and accomplished good things-- but they have often worked crazy hours, sacrificed personal happiness/ health/ sleep and sometimes relationships for achievement. If that is not what your child wants in life, then there is no reason to push it. Life will unfold.

If you want to know how to support your child, then I suggest listening to teachers/ looking at assignments in case there is a particular talent or deficit, and listening to your own child to support his/her interests. Regardless of these answers, do your best to encourage things your family values: participate in your religious community/ support their religious education, take historical trips, go to the library, take art classes, participate in a sport or take a morning jog with your child, volunteer, learn another language, teach your child to garden/ sew/ repair cars/ do construction. You never know when skills will come in handy or how those will develop.

53

The part I found hardest about middle and high school was stepping back and letting my child lead. But, in retrospect, I think it was the most valuable. For example, I’d have your child do chores, learn to cook, etc. I’d also ask the child where they needed to improve and what they thought were their strengths. Part of college “fit” and success has to do with independence and maturity. For me, I had to develop outside interests (took photography class and joined a club). I wanted to role model being an independent person. As I said, it was hard at the time but I think both my child and I benefitted. Hope that gives you another perspective and possibly helps.

54

I’d say “large part” rather than “part”, not only for college but for life.

When I asked the title question many months ago, “how to evaluate a kid”, my thought was not that much on “independence and maturity”. Now I think academic abilities, in comparison, are too simplistic. So I now pay closer attention to what older (=experienced) and thoughtful parents have to say. Getting into a top school isn’t hard if you are capapable, but getting a lot out of college and life is much harder.

55

Actually, getting into a top school can be quite hard even if you’re capable. But you can still get a lot out of college and life even if you attend a less prestigious school.

56

What I personally see from my child is she is definitely under the Bell curve. She is a typical strong student with maturity and self direction.
My kid will get a lot out of any college she attends. She will be attending a state university and will flourish.

57

OP- you need to chill out. Your child will change/grow/mature so much in the next few years. Those “long” tests you are obsessed about will be useful later. Stop obsessing!

Public flagship U’s are multi-tiered- they accommodate the gifted and other top students along with more average college students. Think Honors programs/colleges.

Eventually (in HS) you will want to see how your child performs on those dreaded standardized tests (ACT/SAT et al). They do not measure how much test specific prep work is done- the best students will have learned the skills and materials in their classes. Many of these students merely go over a practice exam (sometimes under duress) and get top scores. Some parts of the country seem to have more students who spend far too much time prepping for them.

Discuss your child’s progress at parent teacher conferences and with the guidance counselor. Relax.