<p>Not sure I understood clearly. You mean to say (1) “Go to an UG school where your entry STATs(SAT, AP, GPA, ECs etc) are higher than most in that school” OR (2) “Go to an UG school where your entry STATs are lower than most”. Whereas BDM says “Go to an UG school where your entry STATs are right in the middle” </p>
<p>More interesting things I noticed in <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/2012factstable25-4.pdf”>https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/2012factstable25-4.pdf</a> . I was looking for the combo where more students got admitted into. (GPAs 3.8 to 4.0) with MCAT >30 got admitted in 80+ %s. Looks like one could go to even to community colleges, get 4.0 GPA. Work hard to get decent MCAT and ECs. Sounds like a recipe. Am I correct?</p>
<p>NOTE: MD schools admitted students with even GPA 2.5 or MCAT 20!!!.Wow. May be, they must have done some amazing things to get in.</p>
<p>Unhooked candidates with a GPA 2.5/MCAT 20 have essentially zero chance at med school admission.</p>
<p>Also be aware that:
- some medical schools will flat out not consider applicants who have taken their pre-reqs at a CC
- applicants who attend a CC had better have strong grades in upper level science coursework & strong GPAs at their 4 year institutions since there is a widespread perception among adcomms that CC courses are easier and CC students face less competition than students at 4 year colleges do.</p>
<p>Good points. Agreed.</p>
<p>Holistic med school admission favors personal qualities, character, “distance travelled”, challenges overcome, familiarity with medicine, and interview skill. Certain levels of academic achievement (GPA and MCAT) will get the candidate an interview, but GPA and MCAT are generally disregarded (once adequate) in favor of the holistic and interview components. </p>
<p>So, candidates with 4.0 and near perfect MCATs from elite UGs are rejected if the interview does not go well, and certain disadvantaged candidates with much lower stats and compelling stories are accepted. In essence, the admissions committee is asking “Would I want this person taking care of my mother?”</p>
<p>I have not seen much effect from UG institution in this decision making process, although experiences that expose candidates to cultural diversity are good (travel for example, especially if never been out of a rural state). </p>
<p>Shadowing, volunteering, and research experience are VERY important. Leadership is valued. </p>
<p>Absolutely. I am with you 2prepMom.</p>
<p>On the importance of PreMed Advising Committee in the UG college:
(1) Not sure on the “COMPLETE” roles/advantages of having PreMed advising in school. I am thinking it will tell a student on the
(1a) List of Pre-Med courses to be taken at what semesters,
(1b) When to prep/take MCAT,
(1c) How many MD applications to submit etc.,
Any thing else?
(2) What are the things a student SHOULD do to overcome/offset the difference in case if that UG school does not have a PreMed Advising committee.One thing I know is to read these kind of forums and listen to ONLY those posters who are proved to be experienced & truthful.</p>
<p>Items 1a, 1b --this info is widely available and not something a pre med advisor necessarily needs to do.</p>
<p>A good pre-med advising office will offer mock interviews with feedback.</p>
<p>A good pre med advising office will be able to advise an applicant on which schools to apply to based upon the applicant’s stats and how previous applicants from the school have fared at specific schools.</p>
<p>A good pre med advising office may have a list of nearby healthcare providers who welcome pre meds for shadowing, volunteering.</p>
<p>A pre med committee and pre med advisor are different animals. Nearly every school has a pre med (also called pre-health professions) advisor. Only some schools have a pre med committee.</p>
<p>A pre-med committee provides a specialized LOR for applicants that ranks the applicant within the context of the school and offers (or withholds) the school’s endorsement of the applicant. (From what I’ve heard there are usually 4 levels of endorsement: highest/without reservations recommendation; recommends; recommends with reservations; does not endorse/does not recommend.) Like all LORs, the committee letter is confidential. A committee letter may (or may not) contain excerpts from all the applicant’s other LORs ( i. e. packet letter). Committee letter fulfills the LOR requirements at all med schools, even if it’s not a packet letter. This is an advantage since there is a sometimes a wide variation in the specific LORs a school requires. (More than just 2 science and 1 non-science LORs) Many med schools specify that if a committee letter is available, it’s the LOR they prefer and not to send additional LORs unless asked.</p>
<p>If a school offers a committee letter and an applicant does not use one when applying, it can raise red flags about the application.</p>
<p>Thanks, @WayOutWestMom, for your clear explanations on committee vs. advisor. Do you think it’s better to go to a college with pre-med committee? Every college we talked to has premed advising but they don’t specifically mention pre-med committee. Is having the committee an advantage/disadvantage for the student? </p>
<p>The most important function of committee is to have applicant be ready to apply EARLY. Another very important funciton is to keep an applicant informed in all changes also as early as possible. Both functions were crucial in my D’s application cycle.</p>
<p>Most pre-med advisors (not committees) can do those ^. A committee often requires more hoops to jump through (although it seems beneficial after all is said and done) and can actually delay the process as several students have pointed out— committee meetings in August, holding up LOR being submitted to schools. </p>
<p>Thank you. Recently I had a chance to ask questions to Duke admission office on this. They said duke does not stop any students to apply MD. Now I am thinking: may be they might IN-DIRECTLY stop thru these sealed letters with one of those levels of endorsements. I am assuming here. I may be wrong. </p>
<p>Are there any published lists to know those “Colleges with PreMed Committee”. Sounds like it is a double edge sword. Serves good for top students. Hurts for medium/low candidates, if the committee does not approve.</p>
<p>AFAIK, there is no list of colleges with pre med committees. In part because schools can and do initiate or discontinue a pre med committee at any time. (IOW, any list isn’t stable.) </p>
<p>And yes, the pre-med committee letter is double edged sword. It can help you or hurt you. One top LAC ((I think…maybe Amherst?) used to have a document on its pre med advising page about how a pre med committee can actually prevent a reasonably qualified (but not top) applicant from both applying to med school and/or getting accepted to a med school. I don’t have time to look for it right now. But try googling around.</p>
<p>As for as Duke’s specific policy—I know Duke has a required minimum GPA to be eligible for for a committee letter. Duke may not actively prevent any student from applying, but the committee won’t necessarily endorse them either.</p>
<p>Nice. Today I learnt one more new thing “PreMed-Committee Vs Advising”. Adding to my To-Do list. My s should talk to “PreMed-Committee”, if there is one, to make sure he understands the +ves and -ves…</p>
<p>The pre med committee will not “talk” to your son. He might be able to talk with the pre med advisor, but not the committee. </p>
<p>The committee is group of people (exact make-up varies from school to school and often from year to year of advising staff, faculty, sometimes med school faculty or admission personnel if the school has an associated med school) that only meets a few times per year to consider/rank/review the current applicants from the school.</p>
<p>OK. One more learning. Thank you.</p>
<p>Learning over here, too! L-)
Does any know whether Vanderbilt has “pre-med committee”?</p>
<p>Googled on Vandy and found these links if these can be of any help to you. </p>
<p><a href=“Premed at Vanderbilt? From a person strongly considering Vanderbilt! - Vanderbilt University - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/1626204-premed-at-vanderbilt-from-a-person-strongly-considering-vanderbilt.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?8/51046”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?8/51046</a></p>
<p>Great thread with valuable info. Thank you!</p>
<p>Did you no consider BSMD programs?</p>
<p>Also any suggestions for CA student in the same boat?</p>
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<p>I would NOT agree with BDM on that point. I think it is too risky for most premeds to go where their stats are in the middle. the exception might be at a tippy-top school where the upper quartile has an act 35-36 and the middle quartile is 33-34. at that school, the students are all stars. </p>
<p>since most premeds do NOT attend tippy-top school with quartiles like that, then attending where your stats are "right in the middle’ would be very risky. At many school, the middle quartiles are like ACT 24-29. It would be insane to think that the typical ACT 27 premed would compete well again his ACT 32+ premed classmates. </p>
<p>at my son’s school, the upper quartile is an ACT 31+. his stats were well-within the top quartile. He still had to work hard for his grades. If his stats had been an ACT 28 (which is better than average for the school), I highly doubt he’d be in med school today. </p>
<p>Yes, the idea is to attend a school one step below the matching schools. If you are HYPMS quality students, go to places link Vandy or Emory, where a middle class family may not get aids from tipy top schools could get full ride and get UG degree free! In addition, as a pre-med, do not major in science or stem, rather, do whatever else of your interest in UG where your GPA could shine. And if you Ace the MCAT, you will be admitted into tipy top med school where you can spend all the money that saved for UG.</p>
<p>The problem of this strategy could be back fire at you, since kids change their minds as often as girls fashion. They typically “think” they like some thing but at the end it is not what they wanted. We sent D to UChicago with the notion that she is going to become a scientist, at the 11th hour, she choose medicine and it is too late to rescue her GPA. </p>