I am not sure how to describe accurately what I hear here, but I’d say that someone who add an @ (any type of A) to the way PALM sounds in my example would make me cringe. My bias might be stemming from the expectation of Alma sounding like a Spanish name … or its obvious Latin pronunciation.
To confuse it further, think how to pronounce aRma or aRmada with a Spanish accent, and that is the way I expect ALMA to sound in terms of As. Again, no call, no paln, no all, no pom, or no Boston type of accent.
Jym626, I pronounce palm with an L sound, but many, many Americans pronounce it like “pom” (without the L) and, in fact, pronouncing it without the L is considered by many (not me!) to be the only correct way. The point is, differently people pronounce it differently!
And, my “palm” has an “all” in it!
Search for Charles Elster Harrington’s Big Book of Beastly Mispronunciation for a rant denouncing people (like me) who pronounce palm, calm and alm with an L sound (instead of like pom and bomb, etc).
Palm, to me, has a very subtle “L” sound. Its not “pom”, thought I have probably sued that pronunciation at times, but its also not a hard “L”. That’s almost impossible to say.
And one more reason to repeat that the “palm” pronunciation should have absolutely nothing to do with Alma, as the latter should have a very notoiceable L and NO silent letters whatsoever. Nor sounds like all or anything close to the later O. The word should be as crisp sounding as the meaning of the word. Strong As, strong L, and strong M.
And even in Texas!
PS Charles Elster Harrington’s Big Book of Beastly Mispronunciation is hardly a bible. It appears to be a humorous attempt to justify the many ways a nation of immigrants has butchered foreign words into an Americanized version. For instance, his views on accoutrements is as chauvinistic as a Parisian Titi would be. His suggested use is simply wrong. Charming but wrong! I wonder what is recommendation for hors d’oeuvre could be or the simpler French oeufs!
It is in the same range as words such as foyer --or even celibacy-- and other US barbarian applications of foreign words, often uttered with the pedantic tone of ReMax agents who want to sound sophisticated.
I am not sure why you’d think the two As are different from each other? Again, it might be an American pastime to elongate certain sounds, but the word is a simple word and it is … ALMA. Short and sweet! Two As and one L and one M. Not six As or Hs in there!
No Ahhhl-ma or Ahhhl-maaahhh. No All-ma neither!
Maybe we ought to look for a few Arabic speakers to explain how they pronounce AL. I am afraid we might tell them the kids study ALL-gebrahhhh in school!
Put in the extra letters to try to differntiate AAAHLL from Ahhhhlll. That is all. The first is a sounds you make when you see a big spider, and the second is the sound you makes when you get a backrub. AAAGGHHH vs AAAHHHH
I am not understanding all the examples that do NOT have a pronounced L in Alma. There is a basic of accents with the UK and US version. That is understandable – what is not is that the part that drops the audible L and uses a weird A sound a la … call!
I hope this might help. It uses a different language but the effect is the same:
We understand what you are saying, Xiggi, but we just pronounce it differently. You and a few others on this board pronounce it with an “Al” like the boy’s name; others (including me) pronounce it with an “all” sound at the beginning. Two different pronunciations for the same word!
And some people pronounce the “l” in balmy and calm and palm, to the same degree as they pronounce it in the girl’s name Alma. And speaking of girls named Alma, some pronounce it with the “Al” and others with the “All.”
So not hard to understand at all! Just hard to communicate.
As an aside, I reread the first canto of The Aeneid yesterday and, other than barely remembering what much of it meant - which meant I looked up John Dryden’s translation and used that - I noticed how different the words feel, read and sound when strung together than when taken out of context. Here is a bit of Cicero from the beginning of his speeches against Catiline:
“Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia? Nihilne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae, nihil timor populi, nihil concursus bonorum omnium, nihil hic munitissimus habendi senatus locus, nihil horum ora voltusque moverunt? Patere tua consilia non sentis, constrictam iam horum omnium scientia teneri coniurationem tuam non vides? Quid proxima, quid superiore nocte egeris, ubi fueris, quos convocaveris, quid consilii ceperis, quem nostrum ignorare arbitraris?”
Now imagine that run together, the words bleeding into each other, sounds emphasized.
My high school’s alma mater had the line “Hail our glorious alma mater dear,” and it was taught to us as “all-muh motter”
There may be regional variations in this, too. I would argue that “alma mater” has become an English phrase, anyway, so classical Latin pronunciations are somewhat beside the point.
I have the classic Philadelphia distinction between tense and lax vowels. Mad and bad rhyme, but sad and cad are a different a, and flag is altogether different. So bad and flag don’t rhyme at all to me.
