“given the nature of male sexuality ie the active nature of it”
That’s not the only way for straight males to have sexual contact.
@musicprnt Without getting too explicit, it is physically possible for a male to have an involuntary erection. It’s a physical phenomena, not necessarily an emotional or cognitive one.
Without a medical test to show extreme intoxication, the guy cannot tell the difference. Furthermore, medically speaking, extreme intoxication is not even necessary for blackout state to occur if one’s alcohol tolerance is very low as determined by one’s genetics. Some people are predisposed to blackout state with minimal alcohol ingestion (just two drinks) and it is just something one has to learn if one has or not - this is somewhat rare to find, but still not unusual.
Right, which is if I were her parent I’d be deeply concerned about her binge drinking…and doubly so if she is an “athlete.”
No one seemed to express this concern over the Stanford girl’s pre-gaming.
I am rather certain this is exactly what happened.
In Brock’s scenario, most likely the young lady passed out in the act or as the act was beginning and that is when he should have stopped - if he was capable of recognizing that she was passed out.
I cannot see how he would have clue she could not consent - a doctor and nurse could distinguish the difference such a blackout state as they look for other cues such as pupil dilation, involuntary hand and foot movements, sweating, irregular breathing patterns etc. that do not match up with the normal speech behavior they are seeing. But, for a standard person, one may not be able to identify a blackout case at all.
The position that the other party “should know” the other party consented is moot if they both are in a blackout state or approaching that state. This is because asking someone if he/she “knew” someone consented is a long-term memory function that is being impaired by the alcohol.
However, blackout is not a light switch that turns on and off. They both could have consented a hundred times, but that could be the last thing one party remembers, but the other party does not remember at all, or both could have forgotten.
Judging if consent took place in the past when alcohol is involved is really a guessing game, as there is no concrete capability of cognitive function that exists that one can rely upon on either the female or male side.
People revert to saying what they would do in normal situations, i.e, the female says she did not consent because she does not do that with a guy she does not know or whatever the scenario is, and the male says the female consented because that is what he would normally expect as well.
The scientific fact of the matter is both could have consented and not remember, only one could have consented (male or female), or none could have consented, yet they still had sex. Such is life with alcohol.
This is a legal question, not a really a factual question.
The women are not guilty of rape because men rarely bring rape charges and when such an event occurs men tend to dismiss it as a bad decision and move on. Most men see such situations more as regret sex or a bad sexual experience.
Therefore, I would say more women commit rape than most people think and the only reason they are not guilty of rape is they are never charged with rape by the male.
It is also pretty clear that drunk women have been consenting to have sex with people–or even !GASP! coming on to people-- whom they might have rejected in the cold sober light of day for the same time period. And that seems to be what happened here.
What’s with this attitude that sex is something that men do to women and women don’t want it or initiate it?
As to why people were pounding on the door and climbing onto the roof, they were in a BATHROOM in a house. Have you ever been at a party where a couple of people decided to have sex in the bathroom, thus leaving the other partygoers in dire need of a place to pee? I have. I have also participated WILLINGLY in drunk sex when I wouldn’t have done so in the sober light of day. Maybe I had a wilder youth than a lot of people here. But I took responsibility for my own actions. I didn’t decide to try to ruin someone else’s life because I feel bad afterwards about what I did.
Oh, and BTW, she was a sophomore, and he was only a freshman. Sounds like SHE was the one experienced with college partying.
The guy in this situation never said anyone was pounding on the door. People are adding things that aren’t there and stating them as facts.
I don’t understand why we are talking about women raping men who didn’t give consent in this thread. This guy has never claimed he didn’t give consent. He believed it was a fantastic night until she confronted him, upset and asking what happened. If there is a case where a guy has said he doesn’t remember, then we should talk about that particular case. It doesn’t apply to this one, the one referenced in the OP and title of the thread.
There is no double standard under the law or under the college policies. They are gender neutral and both women and men can take advantages of the protections that they offer. So if a man feels he was too drunk to consent then he has every right to report it. That’s not what happened in this case, he never contended he was sexually assaulted.
There was a recent thread on the young woman at Washington State University who was indeed expelled for having been found responsible for sexually assaulting a young man on her floor. Both had been drinking and were highly intoxicated. The thread is linked below but it got little traction here on CC. No one was up in arms about her expulsion, although the only witness in the case was a friend of the young man who accused her. She was expelled and was then rejected from another college she applied to because of her record.
Okay, he said that , IIRC, several times people tried the door. They didn’t pound. BFD.
The reason why we are discussing women raping men goes to a person’s ability to consent when they are extremely inebriated . Several posters have proposed that he could also not give consent due to his level of intoxication.
I agree that the policies are gender neutral. I was pointing out that several posters here are not. Most automatically tend to side with the woman.
Does anyone think there is some sort of athletes’ code that resulted in the meeting between the two and the resulting apology? The help she got from the wrestler to walk home reinforces that since it didn’t sound like they were friends. It is also somewhat puzzling about the guy who got mad and got on the roof to stop this. What rule was he trying to enforce?
The timeline seems to parallel with the Brock case but the outcomes differ vastly. One is a convicted felon already and appealing (?) while the other person has had no legal impact and most likely won’t.
We can propose anything we want on his behalf but he himself never made the claim which leads me to believe there was no lack of consent on his part. I don’t think anyone can complain about laws or policies being applied unequally if the party never invoked the protections available to them. In the Washington State case the male student did invoke his rights and the woman was indeed expelled.
But that depends upon what “consent” means. Can a seriously drunk person ever consent? Saying yes is more dangerous IMO than saying no. Yes means that what they decide after the fact is more important, and opens up the issue of regretting it the next day or sometime later. No is more clear in guidance although perhaps not in practice.
I don’t know about that @hebegebe. There is plenty of criticism and even some venom on this board directed at accusers who are usually women.
@texaspg - yes I found the meeting suspicious as well and was really surprised no one else brought it up. The recording of the meeting was even more puzzling to me. I could even postulate that he suspected problems from the encounter and may have sought legal counsel informally. I just do not think that idea came from a couple of college students. The meeting was also held at the house of 2 of the accused’s teammates. She requested it but they were more than ready for her.
In any event UVA did the best they could with this whole sorry affair.
@Harvestmoon2, I did bring up the meeting. I pasted a little from the meeting.
The older athletes were tough on the accused.
The meeting doesn’t fit the narrative that this was just two people consenting.