How would repeating a grade affect your GPA?

Applying to College
21

Well, goodness.

When I asked my question yesterday, I thought I would receive some quick factual answers about GPA. Never thought it would evolve into this kind of discussion.

However, I am grateful. All of your input has made me really think about my options and reconsider my future. I really appreciate the time you put in to give me advice. I felt a bit attacked at times (haha), however I know that you meant everything in the best way, and simply wanted to give me a “wake up call”, like one person put it.

@lonelymoonlight No, sorry. I do in fact live in the United States, and have grown up here. And yes, there were other reasons that I did not disclose, as I did not believe it was necessary to.

@Ibebikz What I wanted to avoid was giving too much information about my situation on this website. After all, like I said, I was only expecting succinct responses. But now that it has become a discussion on whether I should actually repeat or not, I will try to explain my standpoint with more detail (prepare yourselves for an essay :slight_smile: )

To all of, I must stress that I did not come up with this on my own. I considered the idea after researching online, and witnessing a close family friend succeed after trying it.

@Grandbudapest Ah, I figured this misunderstanding would come up. If I went to some large public school [in a large city], then I would completely understand where you are coming from, and would chide myself for not appreciating the rank I have. I have gone to camps in cities where the students dream of being in the top 10%. And here I am, in the top 2%. How unappreciative I am of my ranking.
However, my “large public school” is not in a large city. It is more like a very large town, with a population between 60,000 and 70,000. Compared to many other public schools, it is not competitive whatsoever. Due to the vast majority of the students at my school coming from relatively poor backgrounds, our school’s ranking is pretty low. Those of us who are at the top are the only ones participating in the IB program.
And alas, colleges know this. This is why [only] the valedictorians of our school for the last two decades have gone on to elite, competitive universities. The rest proceed to state schools (which isn’t a bad option, truly, but also does not suit my expectations or goals). Therefore, my ranking of 8 is not at all outstanding.

If it was simply due to the 91 grade average I will most likely make in Calculus this year, my parents would not even consider my repeating of junior year. After all, that’s thousands and thousands of dollars put in to raising a grade several points. Although my parents do indeed have the resources to pay for a year at private school, it would be ridiculous to consider the attempt and I understand where many of you are coming from. @Lindagaf, @TomSrOfBoston, I promise that neither I nor my parents are that obsessive over my grades.

Due to certain family situations and a case of unidentified severe ADD, my grades were not even close to what I could accomplish. I developed several disorders my sophomore year (eating, anxiety, perfectionism, depression, you name it), due to the unhealthy expectations I held for myself. The worst my grades became, the more I became disappointed with myself. The larger the workload, the more I felt overwhelmed and the slower I finished it. It was an endless cycle of disappointment and feeling that I “wasn’t good enough”.
My freshman year, I was #1. Dropping down in rank was a huge blow to my self-esteem, and I began to believe that I had to give up on my dreams of an Ivy League education. I am an Asian female, wanting to pursue Engineering. In my eyes, finding out that I wasn’t in the top three was like an early rejection. Let me repeat that my school [is not competitive].

After several months of counseling lessons, and finally treating my ADD, my grades have recently dramatically improved and I finally got out of the harmful cycle. My organization skills and time management skills have greatly improved, for which I am very grateful. Finally, I am back to my old self.
However, by that time, it was already nearing the end of my junior year, which is indeed the most important. I felt immense regret about how I handled the past two years, and how merely mediocre my grades were. Sure, they were all low As, but were they [really] competitive enough to be considered as a competitive applicant?

@Soapymango @Lindagaf Yes, I said nothing about wanting to take more competitive classes, however that was part of my plan. This year I have taken AP Calc, Biology SL, and the other natural progression of classes IB students are expected to take, such as Regional Studies. I would take the [next] level of Calculus, take the next level of Biology (Biology SL isn’t good enough to take the AP test), and take AP Physics (it is absolutely awful at my current school). I would take a different history class (as it is not an IB school), and would take a different AP English test than this year.
I did not plan to simply repeat the courses I took this year in order to get “the very best grades possible”. I wanted a way to prove to universities my true abilities, and also wanted a chance to take courses I wouldn’t be able to take if I didn’t repeat (such as IB math HL, AP Chemistry, IB Physics HL). I do want to use the opportunity to challenge myself, instead of use it solely to get into a good university.

22

I understand that “GETTING INTO TOP COLLEGES IS NOT JUST ABOUT GRADES AND TEST SCORES”, probably more than most. Actually, my EC’s are probably the main reason for my considering to repeat.

I didn’t bring my EC’s up, because then I would have to mention all that is above to explain why I couldn’t reach many of my goals.
Because of multiple reasons, and the enormous amounts of time that I wasted on trying to finish assignments I could have finished much earlier with a better mindset and management skills, I wasn’t able to reach my goals in competitive classical piano, jazz piano, and cheerleading. Because I couldn’t manage my time, I had to give up my cheerleading lessons. Looking back, it was an activity that I immensely enjoyed, and regret stopping. I truly want to participate in cheerleading in college, and therefore want to join the varsity cheerleading team at the private school I’m considering.
Freshman year, I was #3 in the state for All State Jazz piano (sadly, they only accept the first two chairs). I couldn’t find the time, however, to really practice the music later on, and again felt disappointment in myself. Repeating a year would give me another chance to focus on my jazz piano.

The only good EC I have at the moment is 5 consecutive years of being a All State Chamber music champion with my trio. Impressive, maybe, but doesn’t really stand out, as it wasn’t a solo accomplishment. I have no sports I partake in, nor do I stand out in anything besides being the president of several clubs.
This year, both members will graduate, and I will have time to prepare for the All State piano solo competition.

Please understand. I’m not expecting myself to automatically succeed at everything I attempt due to better time management skills. Even if my grades do not improve, even if I don’t make any of the EC goals I have for myself, even if after all this time I end up in a state school, I (along with my parents) will be okay.
I just wanted the opportunity to finally try. However, if I can’t even have the chance to show what I can do, I will forever feel regretful.
And then there are the Engineering essay competitions I wanted to participate in, but was consumed with IB internal assessments (not planning on continuing with the IB diploma). Then there was the Cornell Engineering camp I wanted to apply to, but I couldn’t make the deadline. I know that not everyone has this chance to just start again their junior year, however if my parents have the resources and are willing to let me try again to prove myself and my abilities, is repeating truly such a negative idea? Will it really hurt me more than help me in the end?
So you see, @Lindagaf, my parents are not paying for a year at private school just because of my Calculus grade. They also do not think that this will ensure my entry to Cornell. I also do not believe that repeating a year will waste a year of my life, however I agree that it guarantees me nothing. I haven’t heard mumbo-jumbo; I know how universities think.
Also, I am planning on explaining to some extent the difficulties I faced my junior year, and why I decided to repeat in my supplementary essay. I will explain how I overcame my perfectionism and my degrading self image, and how it enabled me to excel in more difficult classes.

@GrandBudapest, my close friend, who is a year older than me, got accepted to Cornell recently. She is valedictorian of her school, which is in the town next to mine. The previous valedictorian was accepted to Rice University. Her school has the same pattern as mine. Although I know that many students around the country have been accepted and have not been in the top 3% of their grade, it doesn’t really apply to the schools in my district and in nearby cities. And trust me, I really want to focus on my extracurriculars.

Another example: @Lindagaf, another close friend, two years older, repeated his junior year at boarding school. Unlike me, he actually was an academic drone. He repeated simply to improve his overall grades., although he was already making straight As, even better grades than me. He then returned to my public school for senior year, and was accepted to Rice University. So…yes. I do know one of these mythical people. Refer to the links. It is not as uncommon as you think, nor as absurd. Also, I am younger than my peers by many months, so repeating a year would actually make the age difference smaller.

Thank you for reading all the way to the end. Hopefully now your opinions of my situation have at least slightly changed. I’m looking forward to your input and responses to this. I also hope this discussion helps other people later in deciding whether to repeat or not.
Also, thank you @musiclover131 and @Midwestmomofboys for actually answering my original question. And thank you @SoapyMango for being very encouraging and supportive about my decision.

Please keep in mind that I was desperate enough to consider repeating, even if it meant my PSAT score would be disregarded, although it is very possible that it will meet the National Merit Semi-Finalist requirement.

One last thing: I do not have to return to my public school. It was just an option. I very well may stay at the private school for my senior year. The only reason why I considered coming back was because of the IB math HL course they offer there, which is excellent and would immensely prepare me for college.

For those of you who asked where on earth I read the idea from, here are the links that I found that led me to make the decision (some even on collegeconfidential, who knew?):

http://www.admissionsquest.com/~resources/showarticle.cfm/articleid/84/articletypeid/5/topic/repeating-a-grade
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1850121-applying-to-boarding-school-as-a-repeat-junior.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DE2DB113FF935A35752C1A9639C8B63

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In my opinion this doesn’t change the notion of repeating a grade when you have all A’s being ridiculous. It doesn’t matter how “uncompetitive your school is” top 2% will be considered solid no matter what. It could also come across as being desperate for grades to redo the year. I think your grades for the year are already quite good so if you show an even greater upward trend and talk about these issues you faced an overcame on your college apps it seems like that could be a really good help to your chances. In the moment it may feel like it’s worth it to “maximize” your chances at your dream school but a year is a lot of time to spend not learning anything new, it’s a waste of a lot of money since you go to a private school, and it’s a waste of potential earning income and things you could be doing in a year to further your career. But again I don’t know you personally so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Best wishes.

24

@Ibebikz Ah, no, thank you so much for your help and input! Trust me, everything is still in the air at the moment, so all of your opinions are strongly taken into consideration.

However, I was confused by one of your points. Besides my English class, I would be taking all new classes at the private school. So…in the year, I would be learning something new. Everyday. Could you elaborate if you meant something different?

25

Also, could someone explain why PG years are viewed more favorably by universities than repeat junior years? I don’t see a difference in the reasons for having them (besides perhaps athletes, but not everyone has that situation).

http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/blog/understanding-the-post-graduate-pg-year

26

Students who go to private school after public school often repeat a year, but they stay there - they “repeat” because their previous year wasn’t at the level of the private school’s students, so it’s not really repeating, it’s being “brought up to speed”. But they don’t return to their public school after a year. Once they’re “up to speed”, they take advantage of the more advanced curriculum at the private school.
An issue is that your public school has IB but I guess if it doesn’t offer the HL’s you’re interested in it’d be an easy reason for you to attend the private school.
But if you return to your public school, it looks like a desperate move to game the system.
And keep in mind that indeed you’ll lose your rank and potential NMSF - which is important for universities like UOklahoma, UAlabama… if you’re looking for a full tuition scholarship or a full ride.

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@classical774 at least you are trying to explain yourself, but I am going to say again, after reading all you have said, that I believe you are wasting your time. The year you could consider repeating is 10th grade by the sounds of it, and you can’t do that now. It is there in your record. Interestingly you haven’t actually told us what your grades were that year. They certainly must have been good in 9th, because you told us you were number 1. How bad was it in 10th? Were you number 10 or 15? Junior year you are number 8, as we know. In my community of 20000, our high school has 1100 kids. Your community is triple the size. Let’s imagine there are at least 2500 kids in your school. You are clearly, by any standards in the top 10 percent, and that is what colleges look at. IB is a rigorous, competitive program. It is now the gold standard in the US. Colleges look at that.

Despite everything you have said, there are some main points that are coming through clearly. And FWIW, I am not attacking you, I am trying to make you see sense.
You are clearly an excellent student. You won’t reveal your 10th grade grades, but I suspect maybe you got a few Bs that year.
You have excellent ECs and you think they need to be better to make you a better candidate for elite colleges. You have “only” been a clearly excellent musician, cheerleader, and president of “several” clubs. That isn’t good enough?
What I am sensing is that you think you aren’t good enough a candidate as an Asian female to get into Cornell, and you think that repeating a year and doing great will make you more desirable. Your friend did it, he got into Rice. Great school, but not Cornell.

Your school isn’t competitive, doesn’t offer enough “good” AP and IB classes and only the Val and Sal go on to top colleges? ever? Interesting. It seems to me that your problem is geography. I think a good solution is to just move to a better zip code and repeat 11th and 12th grade there. It will probably cost the same as two years of private school. Even better, move to one of the Dakotas, or Alaska. Colleges love kids from underrepresented states. I am only half joking about that.

You are an Asian female that wants to study engineering (females who want to study engineering have a slight advantage you know. I don’t think an extra year of cheerleading will make a critical difference to get you into an engineering school.) You are near the top of your class. You had a slight blip in your sophomore year, that any couselor would mention in their recommendation as having been undiagnosed ADD, and that will no doubt help mitigate your “bad” year in the eyes of colleges. My overwhelming feeling is that you still think you aren’t good enough and that you need more activities and more high grades, a whole extra year of high grades, to hopefully get into your dream school. You are going to be a very desriable candidate for many fantastic colleges, but they may not be called Cornell.

If you really want to repeat a year, why not do the extra pre college year that seems to be a popular idea at prep schools? That would make more sense than repeating junior year, IMO. Anyway, I hope your dream comes true. There are many top notch schools in the country that would be lucky to have you without you repeating a year unnecessarily.

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@bodangles A 3.5 GPA is still 90%. Looking at the stats that leaves very little room for people with B’s. If you take into account recruited athletes and URMs, and take them out of the pool, I would venture to guess chances are slim to none for the rest of applicants with a B on their transcript. No, I did not attend Princeton- and back when I went to colleges, I’m sure some of those Tigers did have Bs in high school, but I have children at very competitive colleges and one of my daughter’s best friends attends Princeton. I’ve seen amazing kids with perfect stats get rejected. But true, I do not work for admissions so who knows for certain. There are always the outliers like someone who published a book or did incredible lab research.

@classical774 I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors!

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Btw, you seem convinced that if you aren’t Val or Sal at your school, and you don’t go to an Ivy, your ONLY option is state school. You surely know that is completely incorrect? You are an amazing catch. There will be fantastic colleges fighting to have you.
Also, do not address your ADD issue in your supplementary essays. This is something that needs to come from a school counselor. Why? Colleges have no way of knowing that you didn’t just slack off for a year or whatever. When it comes from a counselor it is credible.

30

8 rank is fine/great for Cornell. The reason valedictorians have been rejected is because they have mindsets like yours - where they imagine grades and SAT scores matter most to colleges. They're rejected so that someone with a lower class rank can be accepted. Adcoms have two phases

1: Are their grades/test scores high enough to do the work here? If yes (and you are 'yes') #2: What about their extracurricular activities/essays makes me want to accept them?

Instead of skipping a grade, focus on what will actually help you get into Cornell - being interesting outside of the classroom.

Anecdote: I got multiple B’s in high school and a likely letter to Columbia.

31

Raising your rank from 8 will barely raise your chance of acceptence. You have to give a college a unique reason to want you, and raise your class rank isn’t one. Find something you like doing and dig deep into it. Doing that along with good grades and test scorea is your best chance

32

Quick reminder to everyone: I understand that grades are not everything! A part of the reason for repeating was to focus more on my extracurriculars than I was able to in the past.

@Lindagaf There’s no reason why I didn’t reveal them. I actually got no B’s my sophomore year! Only very low A’s. However, my ranking dropped to 9th. I went up a ranking this year. My freshman year average was 96 (this is why my expectations for myself were so high).
And I understand that my record does not go away. I don’t want it to.

You sensed right. That is exactly how I feel. From an early age, I was taught that I would have to be better than others to be considered due to my ethnicity. I don’t feel that I still feel inferior in any sense, rather I understand what it takes to make it there.

I mentioned after my long posts about the pre-college year at prep school. Not sure how it makes more sense (either way, I’ll be pursuing more difficult courses. I would just be called the repat junior year my “senior year”, then taking another year of prep school). However, I agree that it will most likely look better to universities than repeating the junior year of high school. And it will also give me time to participate more in my extracurricular activities. I will most likely, IF I decide to repeat, decide to repeat my senior year rather than my junior year. Thank you for the suggestion and your help.

I won’t be utterly crushed if I don’t make it to Cornell. I understand the percentages accepted. But I would not feel comfortable if I didn’t have the chance to really showcase my abilities the way I know I can. Even if I don’t get accepted, I still will feel satisfied that I really tried my best.

And no, my safety school just happens to be the state school. I will definitely apply to other competitive colleges as well! :slight_smile: And thank you for the advice about discussing ADD. I will definitely mention this to my counselor, who is already very informed about my situation.

@Ibebikz It’s not about my ranking now. I still have doubts about how universities will view my high school, as its stats are not great, however I understand that a rank is a rank, and that grades are the same everywhere.
The private school does not even rank. I completely agree with you on “finding something I like and digging deep into it”. However, there is not much time left in the year to pursue an extracurricular activity before applications. I want to join varsity cheerleading. I also want to further pursue jazz and classical piano. These are the main reasons why I’m considering repeating.

@Anonymoose3 Yes, I meet #1. But what about #2? I want to focus on activities outside of school. Repeating a year would give me time to partake in different activities I am interested in.

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Why would you need to repeat a year to do those things? You can join a cheer squad over the summer or play piano and enter competitions. Also going to a not so good high school can benefit you as they like to get people from all kinds of schools and areas to promote diveristy. Top schools already have lots of private school kids so that definetly won’t help you.

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Still shaking my head here, @classical774 . It will not matter one iota to getting accepted if you are number 1, 8, or 9. That is not going to get you in. Methinks thou doth protest too much about not being a bit grade obssessed. You really want to stand out from the crowd and focus on your ECs? Take a gap year. You grades are great. Who cares if you were number 9 in 10th grade. Seriously, that IS NOT a problem. Do all those things in your gap year that you haven’t been able to focus on in school. Practice piano, enter enginneering competitions, volunteer, get a job, colleges like volunteering and jobs. You are trying to make yourself stand out, but taking an extra year of school to get even better than perfect grades isn’t the way to do it. Instead you are going to be a clone of all the other kids with perfect grades, test scores, and ECs.

I urge you to read this kid’s story. Do it like this kid did. He ultimately got into MIT, and even though what happened to him is different from the scenario you are positing, it is very worth you reading. Start on post one and just read the first page. It will open your eyes.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/192395-no-acceptances-one-kids-story-a-year-later-p1.html

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hello @classical774

I’m going to pile on and recommend that you stay the course. What was your PSAT by the way? If you have a chance at National Merit, I’d not throw that away lightly.

Given your undiagnosed ADD, you have done incredibly well. Your GC can explain that. Your upward trend is good. You have deep-level skill in music, achieving all-state level in one category for several years running.

I would stay the course and preserve/increase your high rank. If you are concerned about your calculus grade, why not retake it over the summer? If it’s not available/worthwhile at your current school, can you do dual enrollment at a community college or a summer intensive course at a private academy? Or on line?

Colleges will not judge you according to the school you attended. They will merely weigh your choices within the realm of the possible. Have your folks stash that money they would have spent on private school for your college tuition.

Check out any admissions thread on CC and scroll. The RD results came out for Wash U just yesterday, take a look. You will see brilliant applicants with tippy top test scores and GPAs that got turned down. And you will see people with quantitatively lesser records that got in. When you’re dealing with a less than 10% acceptance rate and holistic review, it is very hard to predict results.

Also look at this for some perspective: http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways

My advice - continue where you are, seek enrichment as you can, continue to build your self esteem, take the SAT and/or ACT and apply to schools in the fall. If some reason, you don’t get into Cornell and you’re really set on it, THEN take a gap year, do something interesting, and apply again. Also, find other schools that you can love, that are realistic from both an admissions and financial point of view.

Good luck - you sound very accomplished and I’m sure you will have many choices.

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@classical774 This is unrelated to the main topic, but how did you overcome add? I would appreciate any advice.

Regarding your plan, I don’t see the benefit. It seems there’s more to lose than gain considering you’ve already got stellar stats.

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@Ibebikz It’s too late to sign up for any major piano competitions. I’ve done plenty of district ones, but the ones at state level need at least a year of preparation. However, I will join an outside cheer squad this summer.
And the high school I currently go to only has one student every year who goes onto a “prestigious” college. The private school I’m looking at has multiple of students who achieve that. But I understand that colleges do look for diversity in the types of schools their students come from.

@Lindagaf Woah woah, a gap year? Like the article said, taking a gap year wouldn’t be the best thing for someone who likes structure. And I definitely am one. I like to figure out my schedule ahead of time, instead of just wait for opportunities to come. My town most definitely does not have many opportunities, so I will have to find some outside of my town (for example, I recently found a health institute where I can do research over my interests at a lab over the summer. But it’s 2 hours away. I will have to stay with some family members nearby).
It’s a great idea, and I would be able to practice piano and do cheerleading and enter engineering competitions to my heart’s desire. But I don’t think it’s for me. I would rather attend school and challenge myself during the day, instead of staying at home. But I understand that it does work for many people (my friend is currently doing it…he’s in Europe currently).
Also, my parents are strongly against the idea. I have brought it up before as an option, but it was quickly dismissed. So…I don’t think that’s something I will be doing. I will keep it in mind, however.

Also, by the time I apply to college, I will have 500 hours of volunteering at a hospital under my belt. Do colleges really care about that sort of thing?

@mamaedefamilia My PSAT score was 1460. Although I live in quite the competitive state, I think it is high enough to get NMSF.
Thank you so much for your advice. Do colleges really not look upon gap years badly?
I am definitely taking everyone’s comments into consideration. Nothing is final yet, however I’m sure everything will work out in the end.

@ambitionsquared It was a very, very long journey. I never once thought it could be ADD…I just thought there was something wrong with me and my work ethic. Finishing an assignment was so difficult, and took forever.
I would recommend taking medicine. That would be the first step. Additionally, I would take counseling lessons on how to get organized, and how to break tasks up as to not get overwhelmed. It definitely helped me tremendously with my school work, and helped me tackle tasks more efficiently.

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@classical774 I think that the gap year is perceived by admissions committees according to how the time is spent.

As I mentioned earlier, In all honesty, I think you are doing fine and should stay the course at your current high school, knock that SAT out of the park (great job on the PSAT, by the way!) and redo calculus on line or at a community college over the summer, not for the grade necessarily, but to feel more confident about your preparation. You could also self study for the AP Calc AB exam and a high score on that should go far to assuage any doubts.

Personally, I think it’s a bit premature to think about a gap year. Do your best, apply next fall, and see what happens. If you are absolutely sure that Cornell is your ideal school (have you had an in-depth visit? do you like cold weather?) and your parents are willing to pay, you might consider an ED application to boost your chances a bit.

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Yes, colleges really care about volunteering. It says something about your character that you gave up 500 free hours of your time to do something selfless, (as opposed to paying for private school for a year.) Again, read the CC article I linked. I personally feel using your own initiative to do something worthwhile for a year is far more interesting and impressive than repeating a year when you already have stellar grades. I am sure your town has opportunities and you haven’t found them, or made them, yet. There are opportunities everywhere.

I like @mamaedefamilia 's suggestion of retaking calc as a summer course if your grade really bothers you. And if you do apply on time and don’t get in anywhere you will be happy to go, you can also take a gap year to regroup. Lots of people take gap years and I don’t think colleges frown on them any more than they frown on repeating a year of top grades, which is probably more likely to raise eyebrows. Many kids take on jobs in gap years to save for college, so I cannot imagine that colleges find gap years a negative. Anyway, I wish you luck. Be sure you have a few match and safeties you will be happy to attend should your plans not work out.

40

Wouldn’t you have to consider the grades and current rank of the class behind you to know if you are going to be better than 8th in that class? In my high school class, a girl from the year behind decided to graduate early and poof, the #1 in our class fell to #2. All the planning in the world couldn’t change what someone else does or how they are ranked.