Hurricane Aftermath (Political Observations)

Parent Cafe
81

<p>Here you go again!</p>

<p>Yesterday, you accused me of not reading about the levees. Well, how much reading have you done outside the seedy world of blogs full of self-anointed analysts? You probably saw that much quoted, yet still obscure, little artcicle decrying the impact of the lack of funding. From that article, one could conclude that the current administration refused to pony a couple of millions to finish a project that could cause the devastation of New Orleans. </p>

<p>Have you ever wondered why that article remained unaddressed between now and its publication? Could it be that there was no smoking gun there? What is the basis used by the army of politically blinded pseudo engineers to decree that the failured of the levees is DIRECTLY related to the missing few millions? Have you done any research on the total amount of money that has been spent -and mostly wasted- in the past few years in New Orleans? Have you tried to identify the number of projects that are routinely proposed by the Corps of Engineers despite prior knowledge that they would not be funded? Would it surprise you that one of their important projects was study to ascertain what COULD be done to strengthen the levees? Would it surprise you that the Corps of Engineers has close to THIRTY BILLION DOLLARS in authorized projects in the area? </p>

<p>The reality is that the Federal government has spent billions of dollars in the aera only to realize that the most what had been built might was ill-advised. The levees, in addition to causing severe damages, would never amount to much more than giving aspirin to a cancerous patient. The almighty Senator Breaux attracted hundreds of millons to the area and pushed the Breaux Act to seek long term solutions that go far beyong the mere construction of levees. For many scientists, reversing the rapid destruction of the coastal area might NOT include trying to save New Orleans ad infinitum. Pumping water from beneath New Orleans is simply hastening its rate of sinking. </p>

<p>You make it sound like the government deliberately turned its back to a very small problem and caused the entire problem. If the problems were a few millions, one could ask why the LOCAL governments did not jump in to make sure the construction would be finished on time. You have to assume that the locals DO read their newspapers! The reality is that the local governments have steadfastly tried to dodge their very own fiscal and public responsibilities and expected to make the survival of New Orleans a federal responsibility. </p>

<p>So, what about those levees and the funding? Time to heed your own advice, CGM: “Read some more about the levees!”</p>

<p>PS Here’s the list of current projects </p>

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82

<p>You know, the President does not actually sit down and plan for every contingency. There are 1000’s of people whose actual job is to do that in consultation with 1000’s of others at state and local levels.</p>

<p>Maybe the city and state that have allowed so much building in such a perilous location should take some of the blame.</p>

83

<p>

I didn’t call you a liar. I called you “unserious.” And I’m going to hold you to your promise.</p>

84

<p>"I read an interview this morning with an official in the Netherlands expressing his complete disbelief that something like this could happen in a “western” nation. His specific comments went to the apparent complete lack of planning and most specifically to the fact that the levee system in N.O. is/was completely outdated and yet the necessary technology is known and has been in place in the Netherlands since the 50’s.</p>

<p>Unfortunately this situation is an example of where our country spends its money and places its priorities ( I guess maybe Haliburton et. al. only know how to destroy and rebuild foreign nations). It seems that certainly some of what is taking place could/should have been avoided, lessened, planned for. More unfortunately, similar disasters await in many parts of the country with little to nothing done."</p>

<p>Bullwinkle, the situation of the Netherlands is completely different from New Orleans’. The US Corps of Engineers has been building levees for a century and the technology used to pump water out of NO dates from the past century. That is, however, only the tip of the iceberg. The problem starts with the entire Mississippi tributary basin -which represents a huge part of the USA- and our continuing effort to channel the course of the river. The levees and canals have destroyed most of the delta ecosystem and the efforts to save New Orleans are compounding the problems. The Dutch people would gladly tell you that long term solutions require sacrifices.</p>

85

<p>Way ta go DRIVER!!! It is amazing how one human being can be sooo responsible for just everything bad that happens in this country - aarrgghhhhhhh - and/or that acts of nature can be blamed on man also. Would love to see $$ put where mouth is - biggest mouths should jump right in and see if they could do it better - many critics in this country who do nothing but spew the negatives but do nothing but mouth off on all of the wrongs in the country. The blame game will continue on for years - and so will the guilt of many - but nothing will change the fact/truth that this national disaster will effect every single one of us - and could not have been prevented - for many years to come.</p>

86

<p>Xiggi,
I recall reading in the last article I sited that local governments did try to do something about repairing the levees - they raised property taxes to help pay for some of it but the cost was too exorbitant for them to shoulder alone. </p>

<p>And to your criticism of blogs and self annointed experts, I say hogwash. There are some very legitimate blogs that have been leaders in finding and reporting news and information - more legitimate, fair and balanced than some of the corporations that call themselves news.</p>

87

<p>Jeepmom,
You are correct that the natural disaster could not have been prevented but it seems the failure of the levees is one aspect of this disaster that the government has some responsibility for.</p>

<p>And to the comment about those who are critical of Bush being a bunch of naysayers, I say wake up and smell the coffee. We have reason to be critical and it has nothing to do with his party affiliation. It has everything to do with policies which many of us disagree with and see as TRULY damaging to the long term health and well being of this country. He is not a leader. No world leader makes idiotic, uninformed statements like the one made this morning about the levees. Maybe some of you should worry about the intelligence of the person you voted for rather than berating CGM for being “unserious”. We
have never had a more “UNSERIOUS” president.</p>

88

<p>This is truly a disgusting thread. I would have hoped that the political aspects of this tragedy could be avoided until at least the bodies are buried.</p>

<p>As to the levees, here is a summary of the situation:

But, the fact that the studies weren’t funded and completed and the resulting construction funded and completed by 2005 is all Bush’s fault.</p>

89

<p>Lizschup, it is OK to have different opinions about blogs. </p>

<p>I do not disagree that some have gained an enviable reputation. However, my comments were directed at the hordes of participants who jumped on the bandwagon to find yet another excuse to further their political views. With a knife in the mouth, eyes bloodshot with hatred for the “red” states, the typical poster offered wild speculation and repeated ad nauseam the same story in a vague attempt to elevate it to gospel. If there is an occasional trace of collective wisdom in the blogs carrying the “incriminating” story", it sure was shining by its absence in the past days. Even if the foundation of the story that spread like wildfire was true, it was nonetheless shoddy and tabloid-like unidimensional reporting. That is why the original story remained buried in the sea of daily non-events. People were lamenting about the fact that the story was not widely available, unless you count the Philly cheesesteak stand were it found its second life. </p>

<p>I believe with a passion that people should be held accountable for the current events. There should be a heathy dosis of self-analysis, starting from the top all the way down to the individuals who reverted to lawlessness. I do think that our government officials -from all levels- share some responsibilities for the mismanagement of this crisis. However, I do think that this is not the time or place to seek culprits and scapegoats. Natural disasters happen all over the world. Countries know for their efficiency and efficacy have been dumfounded by the extent of the wrath of Mother Nature. It was not too long ago that France and Germany suffered major damages from crested rivers. And it would be hard to forget the quasi-annual devastations in Asia.</p>

<p>When dealing with natural disasters, the competence of humankind is taxed to its limits. It does not help anyone who is currently trying to mitigate the impacts of the tragedy to face a barrage of cheap accusations. I say, “Let them finish what they started, and then ask them for explanations.” In due time!</p>

90

<p>Um, not what I read, but facts aren’t important I guess</p>

<p>so here you go:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050901-10323700-bc-us-katrina-defenses.xml[/url]”>http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050901-10323700-bc-us-katrina-defenses.xml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-050831corps-story,1,2364215.story?coll=chi-news-hed[/url]”>http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-050831corps-story,1,2364215.story?coll=chi-news-hed&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16461434%255E954,00.html[/url]”>http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16461434%255E954,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And Bush SAID (yes those dreaded capitals) that no one could have foreseen the levees breaking</p>

<p>I know you hate links FF, but there is so much that disagrees with your anonymous quote, I wanted to be sure and not take anything out of context. And yes, I read it all…</p>

<p>And wow, putting the people in the Superdome was really smart…we got those buses in afterwards, why couldn’t they have been there berfore…</p>

<p>This department of homeland security really is doing wonders, you would have thunk in this day and age that Nextel wouldn’t have to provide walkie talkies in times of distastor, the in case of a terrorist attack or national crisis, we would have had some extras to spare…but hey, next time we will be ready, oh yeah this is the next time</p>

91

<p>From CBS…</p>

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</p>

<p>28,000 troops in the city but still no control. Doctors fearing for their lives in hospitals.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think the event would have unfolded thus no matter WHO was in charge (ie; the personal CC slanging match is sooooo tiresome). Western civilization has not had to cope with an evacuation of this magnitude. This event reveals the giant cracks in our supposed sophistication, an issue well worth the above analyzation.</p>

92

<p>“the personal CC slanging match is sooooo tiresome”</p>

<p>Isn’t it, though? I agree.

I posted this link in another thread, it says it better than either of us could.
<a href=“http://www.freewillblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6017/[/url]”>http://www.freewillblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6017/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

93

<p>The jails weren’t secured and prisoners are free roaming the streets- </p>

<p>If we had gotten those people OUT of NO, and had the guards in there to secure the prisons, if we had gotten food and water in quicker- I mean drop in some army river boats - maybe it wouldn’t be quite to awful</p>

<p>I would be (*%&$ off too- when those buses came in, was there food and water on them? I didn’t see anyone waiting in line to get on those buses eating anything…</p>

<p>From what I understand, the buses came in from Texas, were they loaded with supplies</p>

<p>And as for the Navy rushing in, why weren’t they on their way when this hurricane was forecast, off in safe waters until it was safe to go in</p>

<p>Why is there such little water…</p>

<p>If those buses brought in were filled with supplies,-food, medicine, water- great, but I didn’t see that, if I missed it, I apologize</p>

<p>If a mandatory evacuation is ordered, then you must provided the means to get out, why was so little done to move the poor, elderly, families with no vehicles out of there?</p>

<p>Great it is all coming in now, but, if we don’t study what should have happened before, then the next time, we will be in the same mess and catastrophy</p>

<p>Is it wrong to question the mistakes being made- the levee, transportation, why no communication, why such little coordianation between agencies-city, state, fed from day 1 or before…watching the press conference yesterday, it was, well, we have to figure that out, alot of that, well, that is why you have contigency plans</p>

<p>So if we don’t question and critique what is happening or what didn’t happen, we are fools</p>

94

<p>Every city has needs that are unmet. In Seattle we have a viaduct highway that is one good shake away from falling down. The city wants to rebuild it but insists it be put into a tunnel and great cost. The US govt said no way including our own liberal senator Murray. So they will argue for a few more years but if the quake comes and it does fall down there will be plenty of studies sitting around saying how unsafe it was. There are probably 100’s of similar problems around the US–bridges, highways, tunnels all subject to failure. Money is a limitation as is the choice among options. NO’s system was good up to a Level 3 hurricane and they had not been hit for many years.</p>

95

<p>

Perhaps you are right. In hindsight it might have been the right thing to do. But, then it is always easier to make decisions after the fact. But, if you really feel strongly about it, why don’t you take that up with the mayor who made that decision.</p>

96

<p>The mayor can’t comandere buses from other states, or even from their own state, what about the Governor? What about the Feds, going, come on, Governors, step up and help- send in those buses- for days we saw a caravan of cars on the freeways leaving, with wide open freeway coming in…it was a failure all around- and I do think the Mayor was wrong, as was the Govenor, and where were the Senators and Representatives asking for anything, either. You know, people from the north part of the state sending in their school buses to get those people into their towns and shelters there</p>

<p>We must must must look at the failures of all the systems involved, otherwise this will repeat itself. If we do not ask questions of ALL levels of government- from response time, to warnings, to evacuation, to shelter, to food and water, to what other cities and states can do before hand, as I said we are fools.</p>

<p>So, please do not criticize those that wonder, those that think it could have been done better, those that wonder why warnings weren’t heeded, why money is spent the way it is, who wonder what our priorities should be, wonder what we can do when we KNOW something is going to happen</p>

<p>Unlike the Tsunami, we had warnings, we had history, we had experience, on a smaller scale, but experience none the less</p>

<p>Those that don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it, or something like that</p>

97

<p>It seems to me that when you start a thread asking for political observations you’re going to get some slinging. I can’t ever seem to figure out what is acceptable and what is not here. As usual the double standard applies.</p>

98

<p>You can critcize me for my thought and concerns, you can not criticize me for making them</p>

<p>And, is it wrong to question what was done before- to look at all the possibilties- the warnings, etc</p>

<p>Guess so…guess we should just not learn from our mistakes and try and make it better for next time</p>

99

<p>liz, I think the “slinging” comment was directed at fanatics like me and CGM, who are willing to trade blows until the other stops (I only occasionally have time to do this.) It is very tedious, but I don’t think there’s a double standard. I plead guilty. CGM promised to stop responding to me. We shall see.</p>

100

<p>Touche’, driver!!! ;)</p>