<p>BTW, consistently get >50 MPG from the Prius. Mostly in-town or parkway driving at 42 MPH or less.
Fuel efficiency drops with the thermometer when we hit 38 degrees or less. Also, proper tire inflation makes a huge difference with these vehicles.</p>
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<p>U-dad,
Yeah, but the hybrids have the real-time gauge that tells you exactly when you are following high-mileage procedures and when you aren’t! :)</p>
<p>more on EA85
<a href=“http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php[/url]”>http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php</a></p>
<p>^^ The gauge would help mileage and is a good idea especially since most buyers of hybrids are looking for top mileage. There’s actually an add-on gauge one can get for just a few bucks to add to any car that could give a similar assist. It’s a simple vacuum gauge. Engine vacuum decreases fairly proportionally to the throttle opening and the gauge indicates it. Some simply have a needle that move from green to yellow to red. It provides some feedback to encourage one to keep their foot out of it.</p>
<p>There’s an all-electric sports car that I’d like (but my wallet doesn’t) that goes 0-60 in 4 seconds and gets the equivalent of 135 mpg and it looks cool too. Unfortunately it’s around $100K.</p>
<p><a href=“Electric Cars, Solar & Clean Energy | Tesla”>Electric Cars, Solar & Clean Energy | Tesla;
<p>That is pretty hot, I must say. I bet it sounds weird to acclerate that fast in an electric engine.</p>
<p>You know, since we got the hybrid, we’ve been saying that the two gauges–the one that shows exactly what you’re doing at every moment, and another which can be set to show what mpg you’re averaging for the current tank of gas–should be installed in all cars, as they really do affect how we drive.</p>
<p>It’s a challenge every time we get into the car to try to maintain or raise the mpg.</p>
<p>Here is an article about the fuel-cell car being developed in our town, in case anyone is interested…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/BUSINESS/703010331/1001[/url]”>http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/BUSINESS/703010331/1001</a></p>
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<p>This is exactly how you would drive to maximize fuel economy in any vehicle. My father-in-law had a real-time MPG computer in his 1995 Mercury Sable, including trip MPG and instantaneous MPG. It was fun to get it to 99 MPG coasting downhill.</p>
<p>You can fill in your own pithy conclusion here…</p>
<p>We are driving a 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid…and I love it. It is such a smooth ride and so quiet. We also have a gas model Highlander and I can see the difference. We fight over the Hybrid. Got a good rebate but in our area we are unlikely to ever break even on the upcharge for the hybrid as we do not have stop and go traffic here. If you are in a city or often stuck on an expressway or coasting toward long waits at lights, you will get much more use out of the 1-15 on the battery. No one talks much about the Fun Factor with the hybrid engine which is the smooth drive and pep. The Highlander was big enough for hauling stuff to college dorms and back and carries a bass to orchestra weekly. But it feels like driving a Camry in terms of feeling car based.</p>
<p>Here’s an interesting government site that does side by side mileage comparisons between the hybrids. It also indicates tax incentives, has tips for improving mileage, explains the upcoming new window sticker mileage method, and has a bunch of other info on mileage. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.fueleconomy.gov/[/url]”>http://www.fueleconomy.gov/</a></p>
<p>Another option would be the diesel car and use biofuel instead of diesel. Or vegetable oil.</p>
<p>Central Connecticut State University
Editorial & Commentary
March 7, 2007</p>
<p>Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
by Chris Demorro
© 2007 The Recorder</p>
<p>The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally-conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.</p>
<p>Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius. The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine of the type found in most cars today, and a battery-powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy-efficient and environmentally-sound car, right?</p>
<p>You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests, which affect all 2008 models, give a much more realistic rating, with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.</p>
<p>However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse. Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles. The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery, and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare. “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.</p>
<p>All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce? Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet. </p>
<p>When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer – the Prius’s arch nemesis. Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid. The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius, and use less combined energy doing it.</p>
<p>So, if you are really an environmentalist – ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available – a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage – buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot. One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.</p>
<p>Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I just test-drove the Prius and a hybrid Camry yesterday, and I am wondering how they are in the snow. Especially the Prius - does anyone have one who drives it in snow? Is mileage much worse if it’s cold outside?</p>
<p>I really need a new car, but I am so reluctant to buy anything that might not be good in snow. The hybrid Camry doesn’t really get Great mileage - it seems to be about 35 mpg (although sticker says 40), and it’s $4000 more than a regular Camry.</p>
<p>I really, really, really do not want to drive an SUV. I’m coming off a mini-van and I crave just a regular car. H drives a Subaru Legacy - it’s nice, but we don’t want another one. Forester and Outback are just SO fuddy-dud. I’ve test driven the Rav 4 and the CRV and they just don’t do it for me. I also will not spend a lot of money on a car.</p>
<p>Decisions decisions. Thanks for ideas.</p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad,
I just spent so much time on that fuel comparison site! Thanks for the link. We may be in the market for a newer car in the near future so this might help us make a decision.</p>
<p>weenie, I drive my 2005 Prius in New England snows, and I love it. Of course, you have to drive rationally, and you need 4 snow tires (forget the “all-weather” tires; they’re not, and not on any car - you really need snows). If you drive sanely for the conditions, it’s a joy to drive in the snow. I haven’t fishtailed once.</p>
<p>Yes, the mileage does go down in the winter - mine has dropped from about 46 average to about 42, but I can live with that!</p>
<p>The other thing that no one talks about regarding the Prius is how much slower it is than other 5-passenger sedans. While no one expects the Prius to be a sports car, it’s not going to accelerate as quickly as even a 4-cylinder Camry. (Approx 11 seconds 0-60 instead of 8 that is typical for this class.) The Camry Hybrid is about as fast as other family sedans (just under 8 seconds).</p>
<p>I’ve owned 3 Priuses so far and haven’t seen any problem with the accelleration or handling of the newest generation (our current two are 2004 models, I had an earlier original 2001 model which granted <em>was</em> a bit sluggish and cartoony). It’s not a sports car, but it’s peppy. I will test on the way home tonight how long it takes me to get to 60mph but I can’t imagine it takes 11 seconds. At any rate, it’s not a sluggish car and in fact is pretty much like most other sedans, except it’s silent at traffic lights. </p>
<p>It also fits comfortably my husband (6’9"), two sons (6’4" and 6’6"), and me (um… 5’4"). And luggage or groceries. And emissions are near zero. And I could go on, but I’ll spare you. :)</p>
<p>Thanks everyone! I am still “stalled out” (lol) on buying a car. </p>
<p>Chedva: I always buy snow tires now - and my husband thinks I’m wimpy. But I insist!!! :)</p>
<p>WashDad: I noticed the Hybrid Camry didn’t seem as peppy as the 4 cylinder Camry. But I’m not sure if it was my imagination. At any rate, I think I’ve decided that the Camry hybrid is just too darned expensive for the incremental gain in mpg. Of course EVERYTHING seems peppy compared with a Honda Odyssey minivan. lol</p>
<p>Mootmom: 6’9"! So son #2 should fit! I’m going to try to drive a Prius again this weekend. I just hope I don’t regret not buying all wheel drive but at the rate gas is going up, and what with all the carbon footprint guilt and all…</p>
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It’s pretty hard to beat four wheel drive for driving in snow. The next best thing would be to have some kind of limited-slip (like positraction) so as to prevent one wheel from just spinning with the result being no power going to any other wheel (i.e. “stuck”). You see this when one wheel of the powered axle is spinning on the ice or snow and the other wheel isn’t moving at all. I’m sure you’ve experienced this if you live in snow country. </p>
<p>With technology in newer vehicles more and more can have some form of limited-slip without having to have an actual limited-slip differential - a computer senses the slip and applies brakes to the spinning wheel allowing the other wheel on the driven axle to rotate.</p>
<p>You may want to look for this feature in any vehicles you’re considering.</p>
<p>My Prius does have traction control, and I haven’t noticed any real difference between it and my 4-wheel drive Subaru when driving in snow. Of course, again, that assumes you’re driving sanely for the conditions, which in MA is not always the case!</p>
<p>And I can get from 40-65 in 4 seconds when I’m entering the highway. Mileage goes down, but it does certainly pick itself up. It depends of course on how you drive (again) - my H says that it can’t get out of its own way, but it’s just fine for me!</p>