I definitely think that is the basic model at our HS, but I also think it is fair to ask how this really plays out in practice given that the counselors end up with an advocacy role as well. Because once you are in an advocacy role, it is hard to really be totally objective, even when it comes to predicting what a different decision-maker will do (a common problem for us attorneys).
But even acknowledging this as a latent issue, I am personally confident it is a net positive in almost all cases.
Like, who knows, maybe there are a few cases where if you had been assigned a different counselor, you might have ended up at College B rather than College A. But College A is probably not going to be materially worse for you than College B anyway.
And if you had gone to a high school without this sort of counseling approach at all, I think there is a greater risk you would not have gotten into EITHER College A or College B. So it will be exceptionally rare that you would have been materially better of going to a high school without this sort of counseling, even if we can’t guarantee it had no impact on your specific destination.
Or a greater risk that you would not have even noticed that College A or College B would be worth applying to, if the only colleges you hear about from peers and parents are HYPSM, the in-state publics, local/regional private schools, and local community colleges.
Yes. It is somewhat more concrete for grades, rigor, and testing. It gets less concrete for leadership, kindness, non academic activities, home situation, contributions to the class or school (I mean, how does a quiet member of student government not get drowned out by the louder members? Do even teachers know who’s naughty or nice when all is said and done? Should a student need to tell the school that their grandparent passed or other home situations?). Personality comes into play and hence perhaps personal preference sneaks in? These are very human reactions, and I’m wondering if it makes things a little more fuzzy than the textbook intention of how this is supposed to work. I’m not criticizing; I’m just wondering if kids should spend less time on studying for testing and more time chillin’ in the counselor center lounge.
@NiceUnparticularMan Thanks for that description! At the end of the day, it feels to me like the counselor esp at a smaller school is an applicants advocate, and there are small but defined avenues that that advocacy can influence. I know when I advocate for others, even at a professional level, there is a component of subjective judgement mixed in there. And I know what I happens when I just can’t “get” another person.
A funny story re: the counselors seeing the landscape of applications for that cycle and an applicants’ place in it: My eldest had schools that the counselor changed their likely/target/reach binning at various points in the process without much rationale (my kids stats not having changed much at all…). We thought that she had lost it and was just mailing it in, I mean how can a school flip from a likely to a reach within a few weeks? Alas she knew who was applying where, helped find some great targets for my kid and worked to get excitement regarding the choices. Ultimately the kid got into places where I didn’t think he had the stats for. I was grateful that the counselors “saw” my kid.
Yes, and I used the wrong phrase (“would not have gotten into”), because I was in fact more thinking about whether you would apply at all, and the phrase I used instead implied you would definitely still be applying to those colleges.
That said, I do think there is a sort of multi-step process here that all hangs together: use a good process to identify colleges for your application list, and you will more likely submit an application that makes a clear and consistent case, between what you write in essays and activities descriptions and such, what your counselor writes, what your recommenders write, how it all dovetails with your transcript, and so on. And I do think an experienced counselor, with the time to really work with you individually, can help you identify opportunities where that will most likely come together as effectively as possible, AND then help you execute on that plan.
That said, I would say that the people here can really help you do all that too! I shamelessly took whatever help I could get wherever I could get it.
So I don’t think the counselors at expensive private high schools have a monopoly on all this, but it was sure nice to have that resource available right at school.
I’d go so far as to say this is likely going to be one of many life lessons along these lines, and it is definitely not too early for these kids to be learning.
Like, individual striving and achievement and such is important, but over time I think most of us start realizing how much the softer human side of things can really be a critical part of effective self-advocacy. I recall as kid I used to cringe whenever my Dad made small talk with people in their place of employment. But now that I am the Dad, and an attorney and so on, I do this all the time! In part because it is nice, but also because you never really know when that server, or security guard, or admin, or so on might actually end up in a position where a little willing help might make a difference to you.
So yes, kids, investing in positive relationships with the employees and officials and such you encounter is almost always a very good idea. Don’t overdo it, of course, but don’t ignore it either.
Chiming in here. I think kids in general (my own included) are bad at this skill. Kids tend to be self absorbed and interested in their own stuff, and aren’t great at “releasing the agenda”.
I find kids most kids are OK at dealing at a peer level, and certain kids are good at dealing with younger/kids, but very very few are able to “manage up” effectively by coming across as mature, thoughtful, etc.
Every now and then I’ll encounter a teenager who is incredibly skilled and sculpting my perceptions of him/her, and I’m always blown away, and think to myself, “man this kid has their ■■■■ TOGETHER!”
Absolutely, and Rome wasn’t built in a day. I think the first step is understanding this is actually important stuff, but then actually becoming comfortable and good at it will typically be a project of many years.
Hah, so true. Reminds me of when I was a junior associate in the days when you submitted anything over a page to central word processing. I like to think I have always been generally polite and respectful with all co-workers, so it seemed my stuff always got done on a timely basis, and when I had a real rush, it made its way to the top of the pile. I also got invited to the staff Xmas party each year, which I can assure you was a lot more fun than the one for the lawyers or even the special partners’ party.
