<p>
icy. Read it more slowly. I promise I have no reason to be angry. ;)</p>
<p>3ks.
And I have y’all. Thank you. And I had carolyn, and xig, and TheDad, and SBmom,and jmmom, and Alu, and Sybbie, and marite, and…</p>
<p>Admissions officers of some of the top universities come to our large public school, but I have to admit I don’t think Harvard has been one of them in the time I’ve been here. (Dartmouth and Yale are the two Ivies that seem to appear most regularly.) We send a couple of kids to Harvard every year. I think about 30% of the school gets free or reduced lunch. But I do believe Harvard is recruiting poor students - just not everywhere. I also suspect some of it may be of the breakfast with guidance counselor type described by Stanford.</p>
<p>That is exactly my point re: your post. P.S. I think that you contradicted yourself. I agree that you have no reason to be angry.</p>
<p>Who comes depends not just on class but also on geographic location. Just take a look at where admissions folks go when they come to Maine – rarely is it north of the Portland area. There’s a whole lot more of Maine than that, with plenty of good students.</p>
<p>Have others in fairly rural states found the same tendency for their states?</p>
<p>icy. I’m not complaining for my family. We did A’O.K… The fact that I’m concerned for others, some similarly situated, is no contradiction. It’s why I’m still here.</p>
<p>(Edit: In part , at least, I am what MAD magazine spoofed once as the “Radical Middle”. ;))</p>
<p>And it’s most appreciated, curmudgeon.</p>
<p>momfromme: Yes. Recruiters try to get the most from their expenditures of time and money. Most cities do, nonetheless, offer college fairs that are usually within a few hours drive from most points in many states. The college fairs are often publicized in newspapers and at schools throughout the region.</p>
<p>^^^I was going to make this point, myself. We are smack in the middle of a state with two urban areas on the east and west periphery of the state. Airports are two hours east or two and a half hours west. (We have a little airport but no one on a schedule would trust it, believe me.) Therefore, NO ONE comes to our high schools from admissions offices; we have a local alum from Wash U who throws nice events, not at the school, and a local alum from Penn who also hosts an event at an office building, although I heard that this year he went to the schools. </p>
<p>This is a college town, we have a lot of high achieving students, but no one can be bothered to drive down the highway. We also have a very diverse student body, again, compliments of international faculty, but I guess we are considered “remote”.</p>
<p>icy9ff8 – Yes. You certainly have a way with words. Why do I feel such a chill? Why do I sense such concern for the cost for recruiters from schools with huge endowments?</p>
<p>A few hours drive means a minimum of four hours driving and that’s, you know, a lot of driving when gas prices are so high. There are often other regional centers to which recruiters could go. For instance, while recruiters in Maine pretty much only go to Portland, they could go to the second largest metro area in the state, 2 1/2 hours north, which is still hours away from northern and eastern Maine.</p>
<p>i recall seeing notices of some of those college fairs. sometimes there were several elite colleges hosting an event together if i remember correctly. there were held in a metro area which was usually an hour or more drive time (one - way) from home. i can’t recall whether they were sometimes on school nights or not.<br>
jmho, but it’s very difficult for out of town students to attend these events when they already have their plates full with classes, homework, sports, music, etc. practices, and ec’s.<br>
a phone call from them to the student would have worked better, imo. in today’s culture…make that a text message :)</p>
<p>Momfromme:A four hour drive is too long. I am trying to understand some of the frustration expressed in this thread regarding travel assistance to some well qualified economically disadvantaged students. The fly in programs with which I am familiar are highly competitive with some offering travel assistance to less than 5% of those applying. The students would not otherwise be able to visit. There are some fly in programs for just the brightest students regardless of financial resources. Princeton University’s Fall Humanities Symposium is an example of all expense paid weekend for anyone. Maybe it would help to know the students that qualify for financially assisted fly in weekends. The college fairs which I have attended often have well over 100 colleges and universities represented. There are other more “personal” college events open to all juniors and seniors and parents which have only four schools represented. Typically these are highly selective universities. Yale, on the other hand, often travels alone and sends invitations via mail to high school seniors in the area. momfromme: No special concern for recruiters from wealthy schools; just no resentment either. Politicians and entertainment events do the same thing.</p>
<p>O.K. I have a story (previously posted but years ago). D was in fact invited to an all-expenses paid week-end to Williams College. Interestingly it was for a diversity week-end. We called up (e-mailed?) and asked if there had been some mistake, because other than living in the sticks (hillbilly may have been mentioned) we are the whitebread family. Much to Williams’ credit, they said she could still come. </p>
<p>The same thing happened with an invitation to attend (apply to attend? I can’t remember.) a summer program at CalTech for "under-represented’ students. I think D was a junior and timing was bad so I talked to the gentleman myself on the phone. He said that the “cedar chopper” family demo was under-represented enough for him. LOL. The invitation stayed open then, too.</p>
<p>And schools define “diversity” according to their own needs. Females are needed at predominately male dominated engineering schools. CalTech, for example, is 71% male, and Georgia Tech hovers around 61% male. Even MIT gives an admission break to females. Many northeastern schools look for students from the southwestern U.S., and grant admission preference due to geographical diversity. Students from South Dakota and North Dakota, Kansas and other states may receive geographical preference from eastern schools. These preferences are factored into the admissions decision regardless of financial status.</p>
<p>Without expressing too much concern for Harvard’s gas bill, I think the reach-out to rural communities (not including Columbia MO, which probably deserves a visit) is a tougher problem than we’re giving credit for here. Remember – the goal is to find “the best” students. If an admissions officer meets with 100 students, probably only 30-40 will apply, and, for Harvard, no more than 3 or 4 will be admitted and enroll. Probably more like 1 or 2. If you fill up your class that way, it takes up an awfully large number of admissions-officer days. If you take 2 days to swing through a rural area to meet with 50 students with a predicted yield of maybe 1-2 kids . . . well, you may want to start picking your spots.</p>
<p>Which isn’t to say that Harvard (or anyone else) shouldn’t be trying to do a better job of getting the word out to kids in the sticks, but having admissions officers drive around northern Maine or western Nebraska may not be the best way to do that.</p>
<p>I am also skeptical of the notion that there’s a huge number of highly qualified kids out there who (a) aren’t aware of HYPS, and (b) would apply if only they knew about it. That might not be true of Dartmouth, or Williams, or Pomona, but it’s kind of hard to miss HYPS hype on TV and the internet, not to mention books (which highly qualified students often read!).</p>
<p>Our son received the best “needs based” offer from his EA choice, Harvard. There was a $12,000 spread in offers from his top choice schools. He didn’t end up going to any of them, though, due to a great “merit aid” offer elsewhere.</p>
<p>JHS:</p>
<p>In the case of HYPSM, what may be needed is not the name recognition, but the encouragement to apply and the reassurance that need will be met. many families think that it’s cheaper if their child goes to community college or perhaps the flagship university.</p>
<p><who comes=“” depends=“” not=“” just=“” on=“” class=“” but=“” also=“” geographic=“” location.=“” take=“” a=“” look=“” at=“” where=“” admissions=“” folks=“” go=“” when=“” they=“” come=“” to=“” maine=“” --=“” rarely=“” is=“” it=“” north=“” of=“” the=“” portland=“” area.=“” there’s=“” whole=“” lot=“” more=“” than=“” that,=“” with=“” plenty=“” good=“” students.=“”></who></p>
<p>This is true, and many schools don’t come to Maine at all. They go no farther north than Massachusetts. Even for those of us in the Portland area, that often involves at least 5 hours of driving. For a group info session lasting perhaps an hour and no time to speak individually with a rep? With gas at $3 per gallon? I don’t think so.</p>
<p>Making extensive trips to visit schools in other areas is a luxury that many non-URM parents can’t afford, but do note that in his talk of diversity the Stanford dean proudly stated that 50% of the admitted students were “of color.” As Curmudgeon says, it’s amazing that any high-statted public school non-URM kids can squeeze in at all.</p>
<p>JHS, I disagree a little. I live in a non-coastal western state. I’m amazed at the lack of knowledge about Eastern schools in general, and the Ivy League in particular. Most people in our state, even with advanced degrees, can name 4 Ivy League schools: H, Y, and maybe Cornell and/or Columbia. Most do not realize that P, D, and especially B and Penn are part of the Ancient Eight, or that there even ARE 8. I am not making this up. Almost no one could name 3 New England LAC’s. Many think Amherst and Georgetown are Ivy. </p>
<p>It’s like if I said to you: Sun Valley, Jackson Hole, Snowmass, Whistler, Crystal, and Telluride. To someone in the west, there is an immediate visual and an internal map. To most easterners, it’s some charming names. Same with the Ivys for us out west. </p>
<p>Until my D and I did the road trip last spring, I could not have told you the relative or exact location of any of these schools, or the perceived heirarchy of selectivity (not a concensus on that, of course.) </p>
<p>CC has help considerably, as has lots of reading. Otherwise, we are not surrounded by alumni or incidental news about these schools. </p>
<p>It takes multiple contacts with written material, reps, GC mentions, and so on, to help families feel comfortable considering these schools. Yes, we live in a bubble, and we sort of like it.</p>
<p>“of color” is not the same as URM. It includes Asians and Asian-Americans.</p>
<p>I suspect that the proportion of Asians and Asian-Americans might be quite high. Add in African-Americans and Hispanics, it is not impossible to arrive at over 40% students “of color.”</p>
<p>Students may know about HYPS but they may not see them as at all possible for them or too expensive (not knowing about need-based aid). I think an occasional drop by to schools that don’t send kids there a lot would do wonders for educating the guidance counselors at such places.</p>
<p>Having lived in places like that and having somewhat of a sense of how different things are in major urban areas (including the suburbs that surround them), I’d have to say that students outside of the central locations have a MUCH less developed understanding of college choices and the college admissions process. If colleges are truly committed to diversity, they’d find a way to reach out to students who are outside of metropolitan areas.</p>