Source? Because I suspect that the PERCEIVED value of a college comes from its brand, not the content of the learning. Makes sense as few bother to investigate the differences between the learnings at college a vs. b. But the actual impact of a college degree is surely not driven 80% by its brand. I know of many studies which would refute that.
Here is a WSJ article that talked about the research (too bad its behind a paywall):
https://www.wsj.com/articles/school-is-expensive-is-it-worth-it-1523658384
@Johnny523 you misunderstood, or, rather, I was not clear and made assumptions people knew that Harvard has grad student TA’s to lead sections. Some kids love lectures with sections, and some prefer an LAC-type smaller class (the kind where the professor takes students out for dinner).
People are stating the obvious. Of course there are many schools that offer an excellent education and experience, and prestige should not drive decisions. Find a school that fits you, don’t try to fit a school.
That said, Ivies can be a great choice for some, particularly if you need financial aid.
The idea that an applicant would be rejected because they are not underprivileged would seem to indicate some sort of bitterness, while at the same time the OP discounts the value of “elite” schools.
Underprivileged kids tend to face incredible barriers in terms of lower quality schools, parentla resources, EC opportunities, even the cost of books. Far fewer underprivleged students make it to Ivies, and those that do, have clearly overcome some significant obstacles to achieve what they have.
Several comments from several posters about high-achieving students going to lower caliber schools.
This is the struggle in my own home right now. D is NMSF, 35 ACT 1540 ACT has taken 11 AP tests so far (another 5 this year) and received only 5s on them.
Our ECF is really high but at the same time due to elder care and other financial situations we can not pay what these schools are asking. Nor do we think it is necessarily worth it.
Yes, top tier students want the top tier schools. Their friends are talking about top tier schools (D’s bf got into H and UPenn, her friend into MIT…) They feel somehow ashamed that they are not going to at least a T20 school.
And yet, have no realization that in only 10 years time no one will ever ask where you went to college, nor will they care.
This is what I’m talking about. There is absolutely no reason for this, but, especially at competitive high schools, getting into a T20 or T10 gets so built up and so much pressure is put on these kids that they feel like failures when they don’t get in. Nobody explains to them that even for students like your D, it’s still only a 10% chance or less to get in to these colleges. And as you said, by the time they are 30, nobody will care, and in the meantime they’ve spent their high school years spending all their time studying for AP classes and trying to cram in an many ECs as they can.
My kids go to a very noncompetitive HS. S20 is at about the 30th percentile in his class (he could’ve been much higher if he actually applied himself, as they say) and is going to his top choice college next year (Arizona) with some nice merit aid. D19 is in the top 5% of her class, but has her sights firmly set on schools at a similar level. They both have enjoyed high school without the stress of 6 hours of homework a night, 20 hours a week of ECs, or hours of test prep.
It is not necessary for kids to sacrifice their high school years in the endless quest to get into top schools, spending hours on studying. In fact, their chances at getting into an “elite” college might even be better if they didn’t do that, and instead focused on some authentic interest outside of school.
Many top students are going to their state university, due to relative cost. Doesn’t everyone know that? I know of school systems where this causes shame, which is absurd. We need to teach our children the strength to resist this kind of pressure. My kids went to a mediocre high school where this kind of pressure didn’t exist, thank heavens.
There IS some inherent unfairness, which perhaps is the OP was trying to refer to, in that the very wealthy and the relatively less wealthy (up to $150k, which I consider a darn good income) can afford top schools but the middle group can’t.
The flip side of that, though, is that students will find talented peers at the state schools or at schools that give merit aid.
Finally, I disagree that at age 30 noone cares where you went to school, as an absolute statement. It depends. If you went to a state university that isn’t terribly competitive, for instance, I believe it is a net neutral (well worth it for less or no debt, and you prove yourself at work anyway).
However, if you went, say, to Harvard, people will always react. Trouble is the reaction is not always positive, and expectations of you for the rest of your life will be inordinately high 
Over the years I had the great opportunity to interact with young people from different backgrounds, from vocational schools to Ivy league graduates and this is what I noticed : no Ivy league can teach you common sense, decency, work ethics and intellectual honesty. Way too often these days we see scientists twisting the result of their research, journalists failing to report the facts, justices ignoring the evidence. Most of these people are big name universities graduates, some of them legacies.
Helping with character building without indoctrination is something that a lot of expensive, self-righteous schools fail to achieve these days.
A lot of these kids who dream to change the world have no basic skills about how to clean after themselves or be on time for an appointment
These schools fail to teach them a few simple facts : you are replaceable, the world does not owe you anything, you should clean the microwave at the office if you messed it up, taxes are unavoidable and diapers are expensive.
I don[t know of any school that teaches these things. I have no skin in this game but this random Ivy bashing is absurd.
But in some 20-30 years, the common app/coalition app will again ask about where you went to colleges and your kids might be upset that they don’t have some nice legacy to claim to ?
Colleges have limited means to assess character, so ultimately the student body shows some personality traits that are derived from strongly developed character, and some that aren’t.
Most schools have this mix, which is why you sometimes get Ivy slackers, even though they are the “smart” ones. But citing such an example is a poor basis for judging a population.
You are correct, which is why it should not have a bid impact as far as general population is concerned. However, if you look at certain ruling institutions of the US, the story changes. For example, last time I checked, all members of the Supreme Court are products of 3 law schools : Harvard, Columbia and Yale. That is unsettling.
Yes, the favoritism for certain institutions is just socially acceptable discrimination. A big problem.
Since my original post the handful of snot-nosed entitled brats who I personally witnessed carrying on like raving lunatics with the corresponding enabling behavior from insanely disturbing parents all got outright rejected and 3 (that I know of) who are remarkably nice hard working kids got accepted to top (Ivy League) schools.
There’s other factors too that indicate that the process is very good just the way it is and possibly geared towards the diversity that helps to keep it grounded.
Our high school is diverse and blue collar and it’s nice to see some make it, some get a reality check and all the rest (to include the reality-checked) move on to outrageous opportunity wherever they end up.
Our HS also has entitlement and naïveté.
My friend’s D had a 3.0 and an ACT score in the very low 20’s. The girl applied to many schools on the order of Northeastern and the U of Maryland. When the guidance counselor insisted on/suggested schools that she would actually get into…the mother called and accused the guidance counselor of not being supportive. Mom told me originally that her D would get in because she has been through this before and they want her money (FA not needed). I bit my tongue. The kid was rejected to 11 schools, accepted to one (an expensive school that was realistic academically) and waitlisted to another. She took a spot off the waitlist and got in. Still a reach for her but evidently they took her…it was her first choice. Didn’t get her major (business) and switched to communications/PR.
My D’s HS friend had a list consisting entirely of reaches for all/most (UVA, Cornell, etc). Once again guidance suggested some likely schools and the girl cried in the hallway…said it was the “worst day of my life.” Talk about entitlement and failure to recognize what real problems are. The kid attended her safety and is doing very well now. Thankfully she added the school.
Another entitled mom decided that her kid should take up a new sport and instrument in the spring of junior year in order to increase acceptance odds to schools she was not qualified to get into (she actually told me when I bumped into her in town that her D had a 3.0 and a 21 on the ACT). Her kid applied to many schools with acceptance rates under 20%. Evidently she believed her daughter had huge hooks. She got into a reach school (not nearly as reachy as under 20%) where she struggled a lot for various reasons.
Considering the title of this thread, I felt the need to vent. It bothered me to no end that these parents decided that their kids were suddenly competitive for the same schools as my kid…and others…who worked very hard and actually had the stats etc to apply to schools that are reaches for all (getting in is another story).
I agree with the above…some make it, while others get a reality check. This was the very first time that the money these families had didn’t matter. The kids didn’t get in. A true reality check.
FYI our school recommended “secretive behavior.” Guidance thought it was basically easier and less stressful if people kept quiet about all of this.
People- remember the thread title! The OP wanted to vent, did a good juob of it and got rid of presumably bottled up feelings/thoughts. That is what online forums are for, along with information.
Schools are not there to teach character/morals et al (see an above post). They are there for academics. Life is not about the best, it is about living one that works. Kudos to you OP for having a child who is being successful. btw- we adjusted to our gifted kid not going to grad school but being intellectually satisfied with a switch from math to CS with a BS in both majors. He has stated liking development more than research. His HS credentials were as good as the OP’s and his U at least as good. (an elite public).
Not all students at the tippy top schools are as gifted (whatever term) as so many at other schools. Even if greater percentages go on to grad schools (easier with small numbers compared to the large flagships) not all of their grads do. Plus- the books they use and the profs who teach them often went to those “lesser” schools. And their grads who do go on to advanced degrees find those other schools have departments in the same league, often rated higher.
There- that was MY vent.
How many times do I hear “Harvard is top ranked.” Last I checked, I haven’t seen a billboard that says, “Ranking Truth Inc.” Who comes up with this stuff? And why do kids treat these rankings as some kind of holy shrine?
There’s over 1,000 universities to choose from that offer fully accredited bachelors degrees.
I was telling my D19 the other day about some merit decisions and acceptance decisions I had heard about. Her response was the college thing was a crapshoot. I know that is not 100% true, but unlocking some secrets can be tough. But D19 is happy where she is at and I am happy we didn’t break the bank sending her there.