I know students with this mindset. They will apply to high reach schools such as MIT or Stanford - usually not Ivies as they are for the most part students who, due to their practicality, are apt to major in STEM. They can justify the cost/benefit of some top reach schools but their next set of schools will often be out of state publics such as Georgia Tech or UIUC along with in state publics. I see some posters on this forum with similar lists which are often picked apart as having a list of schools with little in common based on school type/size/location etc - except there is a commonality and that’s something akin to value per dollar. These students would never even think to ask their parents to pay for a school which they don’t view as worth the value. They would be far more likely to attend a local in state than an 80k private that seems to offer not much value. As for value, it’s hard to define but it’s not prestige hence the lack of Ivies. It’s more whether the brand is worth the cost. Hard to explain but most would agree that CMU or Rice might be worth the value depending on the student and their interest while for that same student Yale or Harvard may not be.
I bet Solomon’s CSS Profile was quite something.
…I liked 
I’m sure he had a lot of untaxed income…
But probably no pension contributions to worry about…
And I doubt he was seeking financial aid anyway…
Perhaps this was raised elsewhere in the thread and I missed it, but I think “good enough” has been a moving target, and it will continue to be. Obviously there will always be Ivy+, but many of the colleges that may not have passed the “good enough” test when I was a student are now desirable and competitive schools (I went to BU in the early 90s and it didn’t have the same prestige factor then as it does now). Northeastern is another great example, as are WUSL, USC and any number of others.
This is basically a case for prioritizing fit (assuming the school is within budget) because many of the schools that our kids are attending today are likely to be considered more prestigious when our grandkids are going to college.
I just looked at another thread which lists some very expensive out of state public schools on the college list such as U Michigan and Berkeley for a full pay family.
These schools would probably be considered good enough for many families but it could be argued that these schools do not seem to have the same bang for buck value that other schools have. They are almost as expensive as privates but without much of the benefits that top privates confer. The same may be true with large privates where the undergraduate student body exceeds 15k, which is pushing up or exceeding the size of some public schools, as the resources may be diluted by the size of the student population. I expect what is good enough in the eyes of some will not be good enough in the eyes of others. For instance, there may be some families willing to fully fund a top private but not a top out of state public where stories abound of students struggling to register for classes, for instance. The same is true for the willingness of some families to pay for some schools more than other schools and this really should not be surprising. Are people willing to pay the same price for any given model of a car? Perhaps that is what is meant regarding the topic - the family is willing to pay fully for a good enough school but that the school needs to provide the right bang for their bucks which can differ from family to family.
For our family, we saved as much as we could in the kids’ 529 plans, with the intent that it was no longer our money (and it isn’t, once it’s in the 529). That set the budget for college. We thought it was helpful for both parents and children to be able to say “you have $x for college” based on the 529, and not worry about a child’s college plans being affected by a parent’s retirement planning or risk of job loss or illness. And we could also tell them that if they ended up choosing a school with lower cost than $x, they would have 529 funds left over for graduate / professional school, or Roth rollover, or whatever.
I actually think this site is clueless on what parents will pay for - there are a handful of merit seeking parents that drown out the reality that if you look at the full pay percentages at schools - they’re high - there are way more high income parents interested in paying for Middlebury, Boston College, Rice, Cal Tech, Carnegie Mellon - on and on and on in our high school. when you have 40-50% of students full pay - yeah they’re fooling themselves that people don’t want to pay for college.
Tastes differ. There are many full pay parents who will pay OOS for UCLA, Berkeley or UMich over comparable private schools like Boston College or USC, especially when “almost as expensive” means saving $10K or $15K per year.
Yes exactly though see above regarding USC as this is a private with an undergrad population comparable to many public schools. Not sure the size/benefits of Boston College as I’m not that familiar with the school but personally speaking, I would not pay full price for any of these schools. However, as you said tastes differ and budgets differ as well. The latter matters a lot for families who are full pay but who have limited resources so are in a situation where they may be willing to pay but only for a good enough school. To some all of the above schools might be in the “good enough” category. To others, none would be.
Yup. S2 was a Russian/Eastern European Studies major. Uses that degree every day, albeit not quite in the way he expected! That plus the full IB diploma makes him agile across a number of different subject matter areas, which has made him very employable where he’s living.
Will admit we were worried for a while as it took some time for him to launch, but becoming an expat was the best decision he’s ever made.
H went to an Ivy because it was cheaper than in-state SUNY.
Both my sons crossed some private schools off the list because they assessed that it was not worth the cost over our flagship. We were lucky to have an excellent flagship that loved kids from the HS programs they attended, so they had confidence that they’d have a really good option (and as it turned out, merit $) if the reaches didn’t pan out.
One of my son’s turned town a top 5 business school for undergrad bc it wasn’t very different from our excellent state flagship - UMD. Pretty sure that was yours too. My other son wouldn’t consider UMD, even though of the 4 schools he applied to - RPI, GT, Case Western and UMD, it was actually the hardest to get into. I’m confident he did better at a smaller school.
Both of mine turned down UMD. S2 would have been lost there. Went to a smaller school, too. They cared about whether he graduated!
S1 was at a STEM magnet and S2 was at the selective admit full IB. Many parents were of the opinion that they’d pay for Ivy/MIT/Stanford, but not the next tier. (We got flak from a couple parents about UChicago as “not worth it.”) Their classmates tended to apply very high and also to UMD. Acceptance letter days were always a bloodbath.
Many of them got big $$ from UMD, which tempered any disappointment, and we knew many who did UMD UG and then went to MIT, Ivies, etc. for grad school and were thrilled not to have UG debt.
UMD is not a gimme admit for sure, esp if you’re engineering, business or comp sci. We knew a lot of kids from the neighborhood in their age cohort who didn’t get into UMD, but got into VT, Penn State main campus, Ohio State, W&M – all great state schools.
To start with: current MD governor is a proud community college grad, and there are MANY success stories with CC’s. CC’s are an essential part of our higher ed landscape, and the ONLY way for some students to get a college degree, and the preferred way for others, for good reason. I’m not anti-CC.
That said: a few caveats about the CC-Flagship vs non-flagship state school argument:
“Final Result is identical.” - yes, if final result means only the diploma, not learning.
I teach at a non-flagship university. It is well known that when students want to avoid rigor for a difficult course (organic chemistry, for example), taking it at a community college and transferring it in is far easier. And on the flipside, when CC students transfer into our university, it is also widely known that many will have an adjustment period where they catch up to the expected rigor. (Again, I’m not at a flagship). We have advising and support services that prepare and plan for this.
Another way of thinking about this:
CC faculty as a whole (exceptions exist) are over-worked and underpaid. Many CC faculty teach a 5 course/semester load. The vast majority are unable to maintain a research agenda, which in fact is often not financially supported in CC’s. The vast majority do not have terminal degrees.
Now, if you compare this to a flagship where classes in the first two years might be huge, or taught by a graduate instructor who is 25 years old and working on their own dissertation - the CC might be a better option with better mentoring and advising and individual attention. When I was in my PhD program, my well regarded university did not advertise that just over 50% of undergraduate student credit hours were generated by graduate instructors.
But if you compare CC instruction to a regional university - the classes are often small, the teachers are also researchers with terminal degrees, and the primary focus of the institution is on undergraduate education.
So while there might be good reasons to go to a CC, the notion that the education received in the first two years would be identical to that given in a CC is, I believe, inaccurate. So, for academic quality two years at regional state->transfer to UMD would be better than CC->UMD, I would argue. (and unless you’re in a specialized program or the honors college, regional state->transfer to UMD would be better than just four years at UMD, I would suggest). And four years at regional state would be a better option than many realize
I actually know personally a horror story with regional school to UMD. A student was in engineering program, some staff left. Nobody qualified to teach class. Student transferred twice (once to another regional), had to change major twice. I lot of money spent. Finally graduated UMD with a sibling who was 4 years younger. That student would be much better with CC->UMD.
I know nothing about engineering! So I gladly grant your point. I am genuinely curious - are there CC’s that have special pre-engineering programs beyond required courses in physics and mathematics? Your poor friend - what a horror story!
The usual transfer preparation for engineering means math, (calculus-based) physics, and chemistry courses along with English and general education courses. Some CCs also offer some lower level engineering courses like computing for engineering, properties of materials, statics and solid mechanics, etc…
And I’ll add to UCB’s fine post- most CC students I’ve known who successfully transferred to a four year engineering program did NOT “accelerate” with the engineering courses. They excelled at statistics (with programming, not just “here’s what a standard deviation is” type intro stats course for non math people), they improved their writing skills with a rigorous humanities class (literature or history, etc.) which required writing papers, not just taking multiple choice tests, and they broadened their understanding of the physical world with an intro course in geology or astronomy or environmental science, etc.
A successful pivot involves more than checking boxes off a list.
Excellent - this is great advice, I’d think. And I would note that any of those courses (humanities course for writing, calc-based physics, stats with programing, physical science courses) should be available at any community college, or also, any regional college, in the US. I think momsearcheng’s case might have been a true unicorn of a disaster?
Regarding starting at community college versus a less selective 4-year college for transfer purposes, in some states, the transfer pathway is better set up at community colleges, including course articulation to transfer targets.