<p>I want to add that the performers who did not have lines at all even got bios. The conductor came up only at the last show and she never gestured toward the orchestra pit or anything when she finally was recognized.</p>
<p>One more thing, they made all the pit come in, be seated, and totally quiet by 6pm. Then they opened the doors at 6:30pm. So, the pit was already seated and quiet. It was made clear that no one was to see them coming or going. They were treated like they should feel lucky that they get to play for the pit.</p>
<p>I need to add to, even the concession stand people were given free tickets. We had to pay for ours. The actors, the tech people, the concession people, were all given free tickets for their parents or friends. But the instrumentalists had to all pay for their own.</p>
<p>So now you know. Pit orchestra on the list of “do not do” unless things are clearly different then what you DD has experienced her. But I would not ever recommend anyone to quit once in a production or commitment without more serious complaints than what you have. Medical issues, absolutely. But I agree with those that say the commitment should be honored.</p>
<p>I agree, shame on the directors the way this is being run and how the pit orchestra is being treated, but shame also for someone quitting on the commitment.</p>
<p>You really stick it to the conductor, other pit members, and the cast if you skip a pit performance. I would have had to be in the hospital (literally) to miss one when I played in pits in high school and college. See, there is only ONE person for every part in the pit. In an orchestra or band, usually multiple people play the same part. In the pit, one person covers the whole part. If there is another person on the same instrument, they are playing different notes/music (a different “part”, literally). IMHO, you made the wrong call. And if your D saw nothing wrong with this, and she could have physically performed, then she probably should NOT consider a career in music. Not kidding.</p>
<p>Can’t remember any acknowedgement beyond the conductor getting a nod from the stage at the end of the show. This did not bother me… I wasn’t doing it for kudos from the audience, I was doing it because I loved to play and I love “musical” music.</p>
<p>It really stinks that the musicians were treated so poorly, and maybe even worse, while in a school setting. I would be pretty upset and I would certainly be tempted to speak to the administration about it. That being said, I agree about honoring the commitment. Too bad this had to happen. Leaves a sour taste in her’s and your’s mouths for sure.</p>
<p>“It really stinks that the musicians were treated so poorly” …I realize that this was a HS performance, but were they really? Seems to me that they were treated like the pit orchestras in professional performances. I can’t recall every seeing or acknowledging the pit orchestra at a Broadway show. </p>
<p>Like I said, I realize that this was HS, but perhaps the Director/producer was trying to make it seem as professional as possible. This is probably an important lesson for your D…she now knows what to expect if she pursues a career in music…she might not want a job as a pit musician.</p>
<p>flute1298, what the OP described was not at all like a professional show.</p>
<p>—professional pit bands get paid, per service
–they don’t rehearse much (2-5 rehearsals before 1st performance)
–rehearsals don’t go over 3 hours, and that’s with a break</p>
<p>When my daughter plays semi-pro musical shows, she gets paid. She doesn’t care that there is no bio of her in the program–although sometimes, they do put short bios of the pit orchestra members in the programs. Another time, a critic who reviewed the musical liked the pit band so much he put all their names in his article.</p>
<p>In a HS production, no students are getting paid. Since they aren’t getting paid, they should be treated equally with the actors on stage. At least acknowledge them, put their names in the program, and don’t over-rehearse them. Put their time to good use.</p>
<p>Flute-
No, they aren’t being treated like professionals, high school pit musicians aren’t paid for being there, and they also have rehearsal schedules that no professional pit orchestra would ever do (be too expensive). The description LMK gave is what others and myself have seen and experienced, which is treating student musicians, who are volunteers, like they are hired help or something.</p>
<p>BTW, I don’t know if you have ever gone to Broadway musicals or to the Met Opera or similar productions, but they generally do acknowledge the musicians, and that is a paid orchestra. Yeah, pros often get treated like crap, some pit orchestra conductors are first class psychos and so forth, but there is still some decorum.</p>
<p>The kids in the pit bad are working as hard or harder then the kids on stage, they are not paid, and they are part of the musical. If they aren’t important, then why don’t they simply use a CD of the music playing in a boom box? It irritates me when I hear "oh, this is a good opportunity to realize what it means to be a musician’ or ‘this is what real life is like’, that simply isn’t true. There is a lot to be learned about the rigors of being a musician, but being shown contempt like this is not one of them, that is like telling someone who has been bullied that it is good experience for them. Funny part is, working musicians do sometimes volunteer for things, whether it is charity work, or to help friends, and if they were treated like the play people did in our examples, they would tell the people to go to hell, quite literally. Musicians might have to scramble to make a living and it isn’t easy, they have to deal with difficult people and such, but they also have a sense of self and they wouldn’t stand for what often happens to kids in pit orchestra (and don’t get me going on the fact that kids often are coerced into doing pit, even if it makes their life difficult…). It is about respect and being treated fairly, and despite what one poster said, the pit is an integral part of the show, a lot more then people running the snack bar, for sure, and I can understand LMKs anger, have dealt with similar things with my son (not pit, but outreach in a program he was part of and a snotty ‘music educator’ type who among other things, thought it was her place to tell his chamber music group how to play the pieces they were doing, when they were all accomplished music students), and that kind of person will abuse the kids if they are allowed to. The people putting on school musicals are often egotistical jerks with delusions of grandeur (as you can tell, not very enamored of them) and unfortunately the schools let them get away with murder, and the acting kids were kind of known for being jerks as well, and it is sad, because quite honestly, there is no reason for it. It is just basic courtesy, to acknowledge someone else who has worked hard to help something come together, and that is much more of a life lesson then telling the musicians ‘get used to this, this is what it means to be a musician’. It is one of the basic things people who are effective learn in the workplace, acknowledging the help and work of others goes a long way towards being effective teamwork, and the ego people are usually the people who end up causing problems there, too.</p>
<p>I am really sorry to read these experiences. My son had a great experience in the pit. They had a 4 rehearsals, and yes they were long. Pizza was provided by the music department. Hired musicians were paid, student musicians were not paid, though he got community service hours for it I think. No bio in the program, but he didn’t care, nor did the other musicians. Their names were listed. They did get to take a bow at the end. And he was invited to the cast party. It was a lot of fun. In addition, he got to see how the interweaving of the music and the stage happens, and how important it is. I did not have an appreciation for this myself until he was in the pit and I really paid attention. </p>
<p>I say this only because I don’t want other student musicians to be discouraged from participating in pit. It can be a fun and rewarding experience.</p>
<p>I agree with musicprnt. As the parent of a precollege violist (because they are relatively rare in the string world and always in demand) you have to help your child choose musical “opportunities” wisely. Some of the non-string parents may not realize that violists are prone to injury because of the size and dimensions of their instruments. These types of long, abusive rehearsals put the violist (and other string players) at risk of career-threatening injury. I said it before, but it was lost in the fray below: not all music is equal. Stick to playing that will improve your skills-- the studies and repertoire your teacher assigns, and to music that increases your musicianship-- string quartets, and maybe string orchestra and true orchestral rep. You don’t have an unlimited lease on your body. Use it wisely. </p>
<p>(If you don’t play pit orchestras in the future, who will? Easy: kids who do not plan to go on to professional playing, who aren’t also practicing hours a day towards college auditions, and to whom it won’t really matter if they sustain an injury, since they do not plan to professionalize. And paid ringers-- they are the ones who show up for dress rehearsal and carry the section.)</p>
<p>As a teen musician, you will have adults-- often well-meaning-- telling you to donate your time and energy to this or that because it will be “good exposure”. Opportunities almost never come from these kinds of low profile, uncompensated work. I learned this the hard way, but if you give your time away, it is not valued. I’m not saying that you should not play benefit concerts, and not engage in community service projects-- all of my kids did, and I encourage everyone to do valuable projects. But (and this is a bit of general advice, not specific to the current situation) don’t be intimidated or flattered into situations where you de facto jeopardize your future (risking injury through overplaying) for something trivial.</p>
<p>After reading this, I realize my comments are a bit too black-and-white. Of course, there are music directors who aren’t abusive, and situations like VMT describes, where everyone has a good time. But keep your eye out. Injury-prevention is the most important thing.</p>
<p>My daughter also had very positive experiences in the pit for our high school productions, very similar to what VMT described. That is what made me say these kids in the pit were treated poorly. Shame on the director, and the music director for letting this happen. These people are educators. It should matter how the kids feel - physically and emotionally.</p>
<p>I want to comment on something glassharmonica said, which I agree with: </p>
<p>"not all music is equal. Stick to playing that will improve your skills-- the studies and repertoire your teacher assigns, and to music that increases your musicianship-- string quartets, and maybe string orchestra and true orchestral rep. You don’t have an unlimited lease on your body. Use it wisely. “”</p>
<p>As a violist, playing in a HS pit orchestra will not improve your skills for professional orchestral playing.</p>
<p>As a mulitple woodwinds player, performing with professional players in a professional setting DOES improve one’s skills for playing in professional pit orchestras, military bands, big band shows and sight-reading.</p>
<p>This thread has morphed into whether playing the pit is good or bad, or whether the musicians in lmkh’s kid’s pit were treated extremely poorly or just kind of poorly. But the intent of the thread was to ask whether lmkh made a good call when she told her D she didn’t have to perform on the ONE final night of the musical. </p>
<p>I have no problem with monitoring one’s health, or one’s kids’ health, while playing. I, too, have a violist. And I have a violinist. I understand string instruments. (Some of the comments I’ve read here make we wonder if some of these kids are playing instruments that are too big for them. Proper fit is important, too.) And I have a vocalist. Health is important for all.</p>
<p>I feel so strongly that lmkh made the wrong call that it’s hard for me to get my head around the number of parents here who seem to believe that this kid’s discomfort was significant enough to encourage her to renege on her commitment for the one remaining night of a performance.</p>
<p>Reading this thread and the OP’s original thread on the matter <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1452783-should-my-daughter-look-other-majors.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1452783-should-my-daughter-look-other-majors.html</a>, it seems glaring to me that the biggest issue for this D and her mom was that she wasn’t getting the recognition she felt she deserved nor the consideration she felt she deserved. And she was a little uncomfortable, was in a little pain, and kept complaining. Consequently, she should justifiably quit on that last night of the performance. What?</p>
<p>I agree that the musical director and orchestra conductor should have given the pit more breaks and shorter rehearsals. They could have treated those kids with more consideration. It DOES sound like a bad experience to me. One that my own kids wouldn’t have liked. I also agree that the conductor should have, at the very least, been recognized in the pit at the end of each show and should have then gestured towards the kids. (As for the other complaints about their lack of recognition – just names in the program, no bios; sitting around for periods of time while the actors work on their stuff – I don’t think that’s a problem. The programs are pretty much always done that way; sitting around while the actors work things out is part of the job.)</p>
<p>I’m probably going to take flack for this next comment, but I kept thinking while reading some of these posts: “No wonder this particular generation is known for their sense of entitlement, their lack of gratitude, their demand for immediate results, their unwillingness to do the grunt work, and so on.” My own kids are part of the generation I’m talking about, and they and their peers have a lot going for them – a lot of strengths. I genuinely REALLY like them! But I DO see what business leaders, employers, colleges, and others surveyed are saying about this particular group of kids. Could it be this parental attitude – But my little Johnny wasn’t happy; he wasn’t feeling well; so, naturally, I told him to just quit – that partially created the problem?</p>
<p>What happened to good old fashioned values? Sticking to one’s commitments? Keeping one’s word? Learning from one’s experiences, even when (or especially when) uncomfortable? Letting our kids make their own choices and suffer their own consequences rather than interjecting our own self-righteous solutions? </p>
<p>I’m surprised that there are so many people who just glommed onto the poor girl’s discomfort and saw THAT as a justifiable reason to let the whole group down. If she decided towards the beginning of this commitment that she just couldn’t do it – she was in too much pain, or she was too intolerant of the poor treatment – then fine, quit. But to quit on the ONE remaining night of the show because ‘my health is just too important?’ BS. Her health was not on the brink of destruction. One more night wasn’t going to put her over the edge. And her mom’s complaints here on CC centered far more around her ‘mistreatment’ than her health anyway. </p>
<p>Mistake or Not Mistake to encourage this kid to quit on her final night of the performance?</p>
<p>SimpleLife, I have lurked this thread and have been about to post that other thread (that you just linked) many times. I think it adds a lot of perspective to what’s going on here.</p>
<p>And for the record, I agree with your comments.</p>
<p>^Ah! Thank you for commenting, jazz/shreddermom! Sometimes I listen to the world around me and wonder …
;)</p>
<p>It was not that she was not getting the recognition. In the first post. I was concerned that the way things were in the pit were norm for a career in music, and she was crying and needing to go home early after just over 5 hrs of playing. Then people here pointed out that she should not be playing that long and other such things.</p>
<p>So then, when my daughter told me about the choreography issue, I was bothered. I stopped in at the end of practice when I was picking her up. Then, when we went to the Friday show, we found out the other stuff, including the part about everyone else, even concessions, being given free tickets, and we had to pay for ours. And all the other stuff I posted about.</p>
<p>Oh, and she did go to the chiropractor who said she should not perform on the last night and gave her a note. However, in the end, she did go in and perform despite the pain.</p>
<p>^I am so glad to hear that. I think that, in the long run, she will be much better off for finishing her commitment to the group. And now she knows … pit orchestras are not for her.</p>
<p>(I did read your earlier post about going to the chiropractor and what the chiropractor said. It did not change my perspective at all. My point: she could have lasted one more night. And she did. Good for her.)</p>
<p>no, i wouldn’t. her action will impact many others. she should finish what she had signed up to do.</p>