<p>I agree that “8 first choices” is the smart way. But it is NOT really incompatible with ED… you simply select the one out of the 8 that you would be leaning towards if all 8 magicallly admitted you, and send it in ED, then focus on the other seven as enthusiastically. </p>
<p>Re: Unpolished applicants: I agree. I think more of the college-admission-obsessed kids select ECs and classes based on perceived advantages to their application rather than because of pure interest. It is nearly impossible not to think this way once you begin to live in the world of pending evaluation. I don’t mean they’re trying to game the system (though some are)-- but more that it is already SO hard to really know what you want at 16, 17… Simultaneously wondering what some 45 year old admissions dean WANTS you to want makes it even worse…</p>
<p>Just because you want to go to a really good school doesn’t mean you’re going to be a drone.</p>
<p>again no one suggested they were drones- where are you getting that?
However- I do know kids from my Ds school that choose courses/teachers to boost GPA and who speak of the Ivies as the natural nxt step.
Kids who are more focused on “now” may think of colleges as a natural next step, but not necessarily certain ones until they get to the point of writing applications.
In particular late bloomers are not going to be thinking of ED, but they may have a slower but steady increase in performance rather than someone who might have peaked in high school.</p>
<p>True but I too don’t think she was putting them down.</p>
<p>Let’s say you’ve been an adcom for 5, 10, 20 years at a highly selective school. You’ve seen so many similar apps from the same places. Rich suburbs on Long Island, suburban Boston, Washington, Philadelphia, Chicago etc etc the same towns keep popping up. The kids go to summer school at Penn or Harvard. Another summer they help build a house for Habitat in Central America. They volunteer at a soup kitchen. They’re in a hundred clubs, president of a few, founded a few more, carried all AP’s and scored high SATs. These are great kids!! I’m not trivializing (sp?) that.</p>
<p>BUT now all of a sudden you read an application from somewhere out of the way, like rural Arkansas or South Dakota. The kid probably didn’t have the means to pay for SAT coaching but nevertheless scored highly. Instead of 12 APs they maxxed out at their hs and drove to a college for courses, or maybe they worked, or whatever. Who is going to get your attention? Both I hope. I’d think, though, if I were that adcom it would be refreshing once in a while to see that second applicant.</p>
<p>I think there is such a focus on stats that some kids have missed developing the personal/intellectual side of things. There’s more than scores and grades and the right high school. I’ll give an example. We have a high school volunteer on my unit at the hospital where I work. She’s a nice girl, I’ve tried to draw her out when possible, but she spends her volunteer hours studying for the SAT in our lounge. She’s with us every weekend, racking up the volunteer hours. She goes to a very well-regarded suburban high school and no doubt her diligent SAT prep will result in in range scores. I don’t want to be too harsh here, but I’ve never seen any spark or curiousity. I imagine it’s not too hard for seasoned admissions people to detect that in an applicant. Think of posts here where you find yourself really liking a kid in two or three paragraphs, or not. It’s imperfect of course, no doubt some duds get admitted and some great kids get left out.</p>
<p>I don’t think that aiming for an Ivy or other prestigious school necessarily makes you a drone or somehow less genuine. Nonetheless, I do think that there seems to be quite a large proportion of people, perhaps especially on this site, who have certain very specific, and very similar, ideas about what constitutes the best, the hardest, the most prestigious, courses, ECs, awards, etc, the boxes you must tick to get into the Ivy of your choice. I think that being deferred is very hard for those people because they have done everything right, they have followed their formula absolutely to the letter and yet… it didn’t work.</p>
<p>In reality, I imagine a lot of those people will probably be accepted somewhere great RD, perhaps even to the number one choice that deferred them, because they have truly worked hard and done well. The ED process simply doesn’t favor people who are good but in a way that is similar to a lot of other people in the application pool.</p>
Now take that same kid (and there are places other than rural that would be underrepresented also) and add some of what I’ve called before “see a problem, fix a problem” activities. “I was walking by this dyke and I saw it was leaking. I didn’t know what to do but I thought - why not stick my finger in the hole?” </p>
<p>Something that is unique to this one kid. Something that shows
The awareness of the needs of others.
The ability and chutzpah to act unilaterally
while overcoming the limitations of youth and no cash.
The ability to relate the activity to the committee in a way that shows intellectual spark, iniative, and a good heart, willing to serve.
And of course, that this activity is consistent with the way this child has chosen to live their life. IOW, it fits. It doesn’t look “stuck on” or as my uncle would say “like lipstick on a pig”. </p>
<p>I have preached about this before- some just don’t get it. It’s not what you do or how long you do it as much as why you do it and how you do it and the big thing- the fact YOU did it. Don’t start another club. Don’t just write about it, and for heaven’s sake don’t write about what your going to do when you get a round to it. Words are cheap.</p>
<p>P.S. And if this is not the type of thing your kid does naturally, plaese understand - it does come naturally to some kids and schools like those kids. If you have a kid like that, make sure somebody knows that about them. BTW, the kid won’t see their activity as any big deal- it’s just what they do. They won’t know to write about it. They won’t think it’s special. They’ll think their 500 hours as a candy striper is more important. And they’ll be wrong.</p>
<p>There are an infinite number of ways to apply the same principle: basically, ENGAGE with what you are doing. IMO you can be an engaged without exactly serving others. I’m thinking of a poet or a musician or a philosopher or a filmmaker and the things those kids might do to take their interests to a deeper level of engagement. </p>
<p>The sincerity of the activity is measured by where you take it, not logging hours.</p>
<p>I agree completely SBmom. What I wrote is just one way to show that engagement with life. I’m just tired of reading about kids who log stupid numbers of hours thinking it is some pathway to elite schools. An engaged kid MAY log stupid hours engaging in their passion, but it’s the passion (the engagement and NOT the hours) that is important.</p>
<p>Curm, when my son turned 2, a friend gave him a book about colors and I was so proud of him, I said to my friend, “Oh, he knows all his colors.” and I pointed to something green and said, “DS, what color is this chair?”. He gave me a very fishy look and said, “Maroon.” Aren’t they endlessly fun?</p>
<p>I get what is being said about off-the-beaten activities, etc. but plenty of kids do traditional activities because they love it. They play in the marching band because they love it. They do school plays because they love it. They do speech and debate because they have been arguing since they could talk. The problem becomes that those activities don’t “Stand Out”. Well, what’s wrong with doing what you love if what you love is also what other people love? I loved having kids and raising them – along with millions of other people – how would I prove that I did it for the “right” reasons? Sometimes I think all of this is like trying to read tea leaves. On paper, two of my kids looked like great candidates and both were passionate about their ECs. One was accepted EA at a school and the other wasn’t. Both would have done fine there. It is, in the end, a crapshoot in my opinion. One kid gets rejected by Harvard, accepted by Yale – it’s the same kid. I think it really is true what Harvard said on a tour we took – really about 90 percent of our applicants would do great here but we can’t take 90 percent of our applicants. That’s it. That’s true at many, many schools, not just a few elite schools. I know a girl who has had several very serious surgeries on her spine. Her friends are somewhat envious that she has something to write about, something she overcame. Her mom said to me wryly, “you know what you son’s problem is? He’s lucky. He didn’t have to overcome something. And it’s weird that people now think my d was lucky somehow because colleges might be impressed.” It is weird. In my day, you took hard classes, did well, scored decently, participated in school activities and you got in almost anywhere. I took the SATs one time and my big preparation was coming home early from a party to get a good night’s sleep. I didn’t agonize about my essay and I didn’t worry that I wouldn’t get in. How did the bar get so ridiculously high?</p>
<p>My son just got into Stanford. No one was more surprised than me.</p>
<p>He does well in our small rural school and I admit, he did exceptionally well on the SATs. He didn’t study; he didn’t stress over them. He just showed up, took the SAT1 (and SAT2s) once and he was done.</p>
<p>His only ECs were 2 years of baseball and 4 years of band. As a family, we do some “community service” type stuff. That is it. He refused to do anything special for college admissions. He said people don’t like to be manipulated.</p>
<p>The only thing that distinguishes him is that we live on a fishfarm and he has worked on the farm since he was a young boy. He wrote his main essay about life on the farm.</p>
<p>I kept warning him that he had to do “more” if he wanted to get into a top college and he said if they didn’t like him for who he was, then he didn’t want to go there.</p>
<p>He is a stubborn one, my son.</p>
<p>Please don’t flame me. I am not saying he did it right and everyone else did it wrong (quite frankly, I thought HE was doing it wrong). I am glad that Stanford saw something special in him…</p>
<p>(From a mom lurking around threads for hours, coping with the EA letter that hasn’t come yet).</p>
<p>Saw a post on the Yale thread from a student asking why his perfect friend didn’t get in EA to Yale. His perfect friend sounds exactly like my D’s perfect friend, who was deferred there too. So many amazing kids: I’m sure they’ll end up in the right place for them.</p>
<p>MomOFour: I was afraid you were talking about my D at the hospital for a moment, but then got to the part about studying. Not my kid. She’s hanging with the nurse assistants, hearing how darn hard it is to get a nursing degree while raising a family or living on nursing assistant’s wages. That lesson is better than the medical lessons.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon: “BTW, the kid won’t see their activity as any big deal- it’s just what they do. They won’t know to write about it. They won’t think it’s special. They’ll think their 500 hours as a candy striper is more important. And they’ll be wrong.”
Thanks for your wise words. Should’ve searched your name at the beginning, instead of wandering these threads for hours looking for wisdom. Helping our kids find that unique thing can pay off longer than just the next four or six years.
An old boss said, “Find the vacuum. Fill it.” That works in life, even if it doesn’t work for elite colleges.</p>
<p>More from Curmudgeon: “I’m just tired of reading about kids who log stupid numbers of hours thinking it is some pathway to elite schools.” I’ve seen the process of logging hours turn into a real understanding of the need for service for some students. It happens enough times for me to think requiring community service works, sometimes. Though I could just be a Pollyanna maroon.</p>
<p>FresnoMom Congratulations to your son (and to you). He sounds just like the sort of kid that deserves to go to Stanford, and we dont hear enough about kids like that. I understand the need to do it, but the packaging of kids to present them in a certain way to get into “elite” universities is ridiculous. I understand that sometimes you have to play the game, but I think that real-life experiences should count for more than we give them credit for counting. Playing in the band, getting up early in the morning to work on the farm or showing up on time regularly for a summer job are the type of things that are important in life.</p>
<p>A very good essay choice. I concur. (My D had an essay that was on a similar topic.) I didn’t read the fish farm essay but I bet it conveyed a perspective not that often seen by the committee. Cookie-cutter? I don’t think so. His ability to communicate who he was and what he would bring to the party may well have been the tipping point- but I didn’t read it. I know a similar rarity helped my D’s app stand out. </p>
<p>I can just imagine the conversation in committee- </p>
<p>“Hey I just saw a basketball playing goat raising science nerd girl with big stats- Ellie Mae Jabbar”. </p>
<p>“That’s nothing . I got Fish-farm Freddy. He’s got all the bells and whistles, too. You won’t believe what this kid did to help to his family and he still excelled at _________ and ______. Who do you have Bob?” </p>
<p>"Stacks of same old, same old. 14 AP’s , 1500 SAT, 1000 hours at the ___<strong><em>, started a high school club to raise awareness about </em></strong>. And the ever popular ‘Grand Tour of Poverty’ summer experience. " </p>
<p>Do plenty of Bob’s kids make it into great schools? Sure they do. And at every school. But IMO that app doesn’t hit with the same force as the other apps. Feel free to disagree. I don’t mind. </p>
<p>And before someone misreads this - and I think that’s happening- I am NOT suggesting kids buy goats or work on fish farms. The kids who did those things did them without a thought of elite admissions. They were just smart enough to write about goats and fish rather than write about something everybody else can write about. They looked at their REAL life and picked what to write about, they didn’t pick what to do to make the app look good and then write about it. Big difference. Huge difference. It’s what I talked about here : </p>
<p>
Now feel free to misinterpret. ;)</p>
<p>Oh, BTW. A summer job actually working for money with a thoughtful, reflective essay? I think that will stand out at elite schools , too. Of course , it is better if it is not at Daddy’s IB firm or Granddad’s bank.</p>