Maybe. IANL. What was the specific legal language? What defines the pandemic being over? Did anyone really think this would be an open-ended extension? What if the pandemic doesn’t end for 10 years?
All this really does is speed-up the answer to the questions. Like ripping the band-aid off. In the end I will be shocked if we see international students expelled. Lots of posturing until then.
The greater good is that the policy is treating all students the same way (by ICE). There was a problem with students filing for a visa and then never going to class. Some schools that were the worst offenders were online schools. So USCIS made the change to in person only classes. Now that’s the rule for ALL universities in the USA.
The biggest reason student visas are denied is because the student doesn’t intend to return to their home country.
I thought the law was that if you’re an international student in the US, all your classes can’t be online. Pretty clear. Nothing about a pandemic in the law. The extension didn’t change the law. If you don’t like the law change it. That’s why it’s being hashed out in the courts now.
The hypocrisy of both sides is infuriating. If it was too dangerous for health reasons to bring USC international students back on Monday, it did not suddenly become any safer to do so on Thursday.
Bingo. Agree totally. Pawns used by both sides. This should’ve been worked out quickly and quietly.
There’s no greater good here. This is cruel to the students who are doing everything right and none of this is their fault, it will hurt our economy to the tune of 44 billion dollars, it will be less tuition breaks for US students and it’s one step further to alienating us from the world. I can’t find anything positive in this move.
California (along with Harvard and MIT) has also appealed this decision.
@MYOS1634
The exemption for online classes was for spring and summer 2020.
And this is based on… what? Do you have any facts at all to support this claim?
Seriously - what evidence is this based on?
The international student population make up 5.5% of the entire student population of the USA, so it is difficult to make a case that they are driving tuition increase. Moreover, for example, between 2001 and 2010, the percent of international students dropped slightly, but tuition increase by some 32%. So there is little correlation between the proportion of international students and tuition, and any correlation that actually exists is almost certainly spurious.
One of the greatest things that the USA university system has done since WWII is become the world’s greatest importer of minds. Most of these brilliant young women and men who are accepted to college stay and add their amazing skills and talents to the USA.
Taking on the best and brightest of the international student population has been one of the reasons that the American higher education system has been so great.
Trying to destroy this in order to pressure universities to enact policies which put their faculty and staff in danger is unconscionable.
As for “questionable course topics and majors” - the vast majority of those courses which you do not like are not being attended by international student, so that’s an additional Red Herring.
Besides, what is your metric by which you decide whether a course or a major is “questionable”? Unless you have detailed knowledge of every major and every course and every career, you likely do not actually know which majors are useful and what material is beneficial to a student when they graduate.
This article is a good summary of the negative effects of deporting international students.
And you see no difference whatsoever between students who never went to class and students who suddenly have their class switched to all online in October? None?
ICE said that in their press release. They were, of course, lying. The original document is here: https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2020/Coronavirus%20Guidance_3.13.20.pdf
The document clearly says " This temporary provision is only in effect for the duration of the emergency…" It has nothing to say about the exemption being for the spring and summer. That’s just a post hoc justification for ICE’s recent actions.
The emergency, alas, is far from over, as we can all see by taking a look at what’s happening in ICUs in Southern California, Arizona, Texas, Florida and other states.
On March 9th, in the original announcement, ICE said it was making the change in order to permit nonresidents to continue to take a normal courseload in a regular program of study. Apparently that objective can be achieved for Harvard and MIT students, at least, anywhere in the world this fall.
@“Cardinal Fang”
But they also include a reminder that it is subject to change.
NOTE: Due to the fluid nature of this difficult situation, this guidance may be subject to change. SEVP will continue to monitor the COVID-19 situation and will adjust its guidance as needed.
Clearly ICE didn’t think the change through carefully but IMHO I think having international students coming to the US to take 100% online classes is unnecessary. Students already here should be allowed to remain regardless of their school’s class format. My prediction is that change will happen.
Plenty of places in the world have good internet. Plenty do not: either they have outages, or they have censorship. For example, there are undoubtedly a lot of things that a Chinese studies professor at Harvard might want to say that the Chinese government doesn’t want Chinese people to hear.
The goal is only to make normal progress in a regular program of study, not to have an ideal academic experience. No one may have that this fall.
There is a heck of a difference between “not having an ideal academic experience” and “crap, we don’t have internet for the next three days”, “the professor’s office hours are at 3 am in my country”, or “the material of this course was deemed inappropriate by your government, and therefore you cannot see it”, or worse “this material is subversive, please come with us for a short Q&A session from which you may, or may not, come back intact, depending on whether we like your answers”.
Not all domestic students have reliable internet, or live in convenient time zones, either. That is why they prefer to be f2f.
No foreigner has a right to be in this country…their presence here, student or not, is at the grace and goodwill of the rules set forth by prevailing authority, which has been duly elected by the American people…it’s that simple…change it in November if you don’t agree with it.
Absolutely intend to do that in November. In the meantime, the United States will lose tremendous trust and credibility in the world, and schools and students will be damaged. It’s a purely political move and unforgiveable, IMHO.
Doubt that…those same expelled foreign students will be lined up by the hundreds of thousands to re enroll here…they know this is still the best place in the world…some Americans will never realize that.