One problem is that if they are out of the US for longer than I think 5 months they have to reapply for a new visa, which can be onerous, time consuming, and in no way guaranteed. And I have an uneasy feeling that once certain parties are out they will most certainly not be allowed to return, at least under the current regime.
ETA: if a school is forced to go online in October, the international students would be forced to leave. This pits the schools against the governors who would likely be making the decisions to close schools.
How does this rule affect PhD students who have completed regular course work, so that their only “courses” now are “independent study/research” and/or “field work”?
@Knowsstuff The holes in enforcement are beyond the point. Put yourself in shoes of a foreign student paying $60k/year for the privilege of studying in the US, then learning the classes are going to be online, and then learning they can be deported, and/or banned for years from getting their visa, with likely negative consequences for their diploma. Would you still come?
Was talking to D about grad students (specifically PhD) and asked what they do now since after year 2 they are out of coursework anyway (teaching, taking comps, dissertating) She said there has always been some course registration for PhD students to take care of this. So may be more problem at masters level for grad stdundents.
Looking at Yale’s international page, up until yesterday it looked as if they anticipated the rule for f2f that was waived in spring to continue into fall. There is now a note saying they’ll update ASAP. Btw, international students were one group that could be in resident housing for the whole year regardless of if freshman or sophomore. Of course how international travel, embassy appointments, etc work is a whole different thing.
You would think pandemic would be a good reason for some grace.
BTW, UofSC has its first international student body president… from Australia. Looks like she is already here. She will likely be ok since the school is planning some f2f and hybrid along with some moving online - at least for now…
Well at my kids boarding school, many international kids must have seen this coming. Most stayed in the US over the Summer because they thought they might not be able to get back ( esp. those from Hong Kong).
Many of these universities chose to pursue the full pay international student $$ and that has risks in a pandemic.
Think of ALL the American students who will not be on campus this Fall. The pandemic is affecting everyone. Not just US students and not just international students. And as others cited, many people worldwide are affected by closed embassies and other factors.
I feel for ALL of the students whose plans have changed. There are many full pay American students also who will be learning from home. Think of kids in HI with it’s time difference, or kids who live in areas with poor wifi or unsuitable conditions. And there are many US kids who won’t be able to do their programs either.
There is usually a graduate seminar attached to this work. If those “classes” go virtual, then it might not matter if the actual lab work is not. It would be considered an online course.
Some grad students and all new post docs are already impacted by the moratorium on J1 visas. @Happytimes2001 staying in the US doesn’t help. If you are here and your school is online, you have to leave. With Harvard’s current plan, the student from Hawaii would be able to live in the dorms. The student from Canada would have to stay outside of the US.
ICE is enforcing a regulation which did not take the existence of a pandemic into consideration.
ICE is enforcing a rule which didn’t provide student visas to international students who were registered in one of the different permanently online programs that existed pre-COVID. It is being enforced on programs which are temporarily online in order to protect faculty and students as part of a campaign to hurt higher education, hurt international students, and to force universities to open up.
The decision to treat students who are enrolled in a programs which are temporarily online as though they are enrolled in a permanently online program was done at the level of ICE and at the level of the administration, not at the level of Congress.
How much discretion does ICE have to unilaterally change or provide exemptions to the existing rules? Would actual rule changes or amendments need to comply with public comment period and such?
@“Cardinal Fang”
Is it? I thought the general rule is that in order to qualify for a student visa the international student must take in person classes. ICE suspended that requirement for the spring and summer 2020 so students could finish the 2019-2020 school year. They further clarified for Fall 2020 international students can’t qualify for a student visa to come to the US to attend an all online school and resident international students can’t stay in the US to take all online classes. In person and hybrid programs don’t have the same restrictions.
Due to COVID-19, SEVP instituted a temporary exemption regarding online courses for the spring and summer semesters. This policy permitted nonimmigrant students to take more online courses than normally permitted by federal regulation to maintain their nonimmigrant status during the COVID-19 emergency.
I’d argue the emergency is still continuing and those international students who are in residence in the US should be permitted to remain and take classes this fall. I don’t have as much issue with keeping those who haven’t arrived yet in their home countries because housing density is an issue. But they should be permitted to continue their visa applications so they can come to the US if and when their schools begin hybrid or in person classes.
ICE is pretending the pandemic is behind us.
That rule applies to online-only programs, not regular colleges forced to move to distance learning due to a pandemic. It was suspended in the Spring for a reason: it’s the only thing that makes sense. There’s no reason to return to pre-pandemic regulations, unless you choose to pretend the pandemic is over.
Another difference: if American students start their degree online from home, they can attend college in the Spring if all is OK, or Fall 2021 if need be. If International students start their degree through their college’s online classes, they lose their visa and can’t start in Spring or Fall 2021.
That rule applies to all international students seeking to study in the US at any time. Why do you keep saying they’ll be prohibited from applying for their visas? Or reapplying? They can apply for their visas for spring 2021 or fall 2021. If they qualified once they’ll qualify again.
And yes it is easier for Americans because they chose to go to school in America. My daughter studies abroad. If she can’t return to her school in the fall she will also lose her visa and have to reapply.
I initially posted that international students who stay in their country and take classes online at American universities would subsequently be denied visas to the US. I saw this on Twitter, but have not been able to substantiate it. I regret posting something that I now can’t substantiate.
When several people commented yesterday that this policy might be intended to put pressure on the schools to hold classes in person and open their campuses, I didn’t want to believe it, but from the comments made by the Administration today it seems clear that actually is the case. I’m sure there is an anti-immigration element as well, but it seems the primary goal is to force the hand of the universities that need the tuition/room & board they receive from the international students. I read today that international students represent more than 20% of the total student body in the US, with their financial contribution being substantially more than that because they are mostly full-pay.