<p>Maybe those insisting the OP’s son be allowed to go away to school right out of hs will offer to pay.</p>
<p>The other thing is the nature of his LD. If he has executive functioning problems, and finds himself as an 18 year old boy at a sleep-away college, it can easily be a recipe for disaster, and a huge waste of the chunk of money for freshman year. He could blow it completely. I totally see why the mom is not ready to send him away to navigate college on his own. Of course the boy wants to do what his friends are doing, but sadly, life isn’t fair.</p>
<p>about the vocational tech programs – sadly, this is a part of the curriculum that has really died out here. The strong HSs in our state are essentially public prep schools. At ours, half the kids take APs and they all do well on the AP tests – the school doesn’t let them enroll in the APs if they are likely to mess up the average. They get a GPA bump, so they easily comprise the top half of the class, and it is mathematically impossible to compete successfully if you are not part of it.</p>
<p>For the kids whose gifts are more with their hands, there is nothing in town. Our county does have a magnet school for the practical arts. I took S to see it a few times before HS. We found two things – the core content standards have taken over so much of the day, that the practical arts really just occupy the elective spaces on the schedule in that program. So it’s not much of an immersion, and they don’t get too far with it. The carpentry they were doing, for example, was less than he had already learned to do by helping the architect friend. And as an academic school, the magnet is far below our district. I got the feeling that most of the kids there are nice kids who sought refuge from some of the rougher, academically weaker, more crime-ridden areas of the county. They seemed somewhat dispirited. It didn’t inspire S to want to sign up, and I can’t blame him. I assured him that we could always send him to tech school after HS if that’s what he wanted. The other thing we found is that S actually likes the academic subjects in his own way, and hopes to emerge as more of a student (while playing with paperclips at homework time). Mindful of the late bloomer possibility, and knowing that he is in a very good academic district where he’s socially happy, gets along with the adults, and loves his coaches, we let it go.</p>
<p>S is also a pretty good cook, and has had some teen culinary training in the summers, which went well. I took him to see the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, NY (which is a beautiful place teeming with happy students and fabulous food – I was ready to enroll myself). He liked it, but again, doesn’t think he wants to pursue it as a career, and hopes to emerge as more of an academic on his own mysterious timetable. CIA is a pricey private school, they keep the purse strings tight by refusing to give you much credit at all if you transfer in (I think they would call that quality control of graduates) and you could easily blow a college fund like ours on a two-year degree there, which is vocational and would not form a transferrable foundation for any other kind of bachelor’s degree. Your 3 credits in “mother sauces” or “knife skills” isn’t going to be accepted toward a B.A. or B.S. So, unless money is no object, you’re really betting the farm on cooking. Read Anthony Bourdain’s books and think again about how your back will feel at 50. It’s sort of like what they tell aspiring ballet dancers – “don’t do it unless you have to”. (At least, not at those rates if you have a budget – a good CC culinary program would impart many of the same skills without the resort-like atmosphere.)</p>
<p>About the teenage boy timetable – I do appreciate the stories from others, and it may be genetic. Back in the 70s, H squeaked into a reasonably-selective LAC (as a full-freight payor in a recession with a need-aware admissions office), unfolded into a whole different kind of hardworking student while there, went on to professional school, and is very well-regarded and fulfilled in his practice. So while I embrace the trades for those with talent, and I abhor the way the trades have been shoved off to a corner of the educational landscape around here, I also respect S’s individual decision to hang in at a liberal arts HS, and it may work out to his satisfaction in the long run, as it did for his dad.</p>
<p>2collegewego, I agree about not using money or stuff as a motivator. And in fairness to S, I feel a need to report this accurately; he’s not an ingrate today. The problems emerged at age 5, the intensive help started then, he is a natural athlete who mostly did not like extra time at a desk with some lady working on things that were frustrating. I wouldn’t expect an early elementary schooler to be grateful for help. I also knew that he was far too young to make responsible decisions in his own best interests, and we had to get him help, period. I can’t hold that against the middle-teenager he is today. But it was a battle royale.</p>
<p>In the interests of his age-appropriate overall personal maturation, as he got into middle school, we gradually stopped taking the lead, and moved more to just helping when asked, urging him to use resources available at school for his first line of help, and letting the teachers be the primary people to hold him accountable. He lapsed down into the less competitive class placements (which is not what the elementary school teachers had wanted for him on the basis of his brain). We stopped the private tutors, except for short-term endeavors when he asks. He did override course recommendations for 10th grade to enter “enriched” classes because he wanted more intellectual substance. Enriched is the worst of both worlds for your transcript – it’s harder, but with no GPA bump. That’s OK. I’d rather see him seek knowledge than try to play a game for grades. His transcript is truly his own. He is a polite, respectful kid today – albeit one who did not understand the sacrifices that were made to remediate his problems early on, and resisted the help. The goal is not to stick him together with duct tape and cram him into a college somewhere. The goal is to let him figure out that his work must be his own, and he will live the kind of life that he builds for himself.</p>
<p>Our HS is also a “public prep” The out is that the county runs a HS for kids with hands skills. One of DDs friends brothers went there, and ended up in film work and got me into to watcj a filming of Law and Order SVU (my god, how tall Olivia and Elliot are). back to story, the kids get HS diploma and entre to trades (plumbing, elect, etc)</p>
<p>Can he not take some County College classes as a junior and senior in high school? Does NJ offer dual enrollment?</p>
<p>I’m a bit confused. Is he just not that academic, with technical and athletic skills, or does he have a diagnosed, definable LD that will dictate how you proceed (getting the right supports)?</p>
<p>MN – why take cc classes now? High school level classes sound challenging enough. I don’t always see the need to rush things along, esp with a late bloomer. He’s just a sophomore.</p>
<p>Red–in MN those classes are free for high school students. The college bound kids here take classes through the University of MN for free (but can take classes at the community college as well). If a parent wants to see if a more vo-tech type job (plumber or whatever) would be a good fit, they can take those classes as a junior and/or senior in high school and if they do that full time, will have their AA degree when they graduate from high school. I was suggesting this because the OP said that they don’t have the options to explore these types of classes in their high school. </p>
<p>For the 4 year college bound kids here that chose to dual enroll full time, they graduate with enough credits to start college as a junior. For some kids, they like that option. Since money is a concern for the OP, it would be worth checking into.</p>
<p>Our kids will graduate high school with about 25 college credits, not counting AP tests through this program but they are not taking this full time (they offer some of these classes right at our high school so it is easy). Others take the classes on the college campuses. For example, next year our kids will take CIS (College in the School) Spanish, which is Spanish 5. They will have 10 college Spanish credits that, if the the college they attend accepts the transfer credits, will be on their college transcript.</p>
<p>Most states have something similar to this and while not all states have a free option like we do, most are at a pretty low cost.</p>
<p>MN- if this kid is not doing that well with high school courses, why would he be taking college level courses? I also do not understand why it is such an obsession in pushing 4 year college. OP consistently talk about her son’s LD, which clearly indicates to me that OP (as his mom) thinks he may need some guidance in making his future planS, and in my book, it is perfectly reasonable. This repeat of “the kid must make his own decision” about college is not appropriate for every kid, and people should stop making OP feel bad for helping her son.</p>
<p>OP- I don’t have a kid with LD, and I am very thankful. In reading your posts, you sound like a great parent whom has taken everything into consideration and is doing what you think is best for your child. There are some posters with similar challenges, I hope they could give you some food for thought. It is what’s great about CC. I just want to show my support.</p>
<p>I do appreciate your support, oldfort, and the kindness extended by almost everybody here. Redpoint, he is both. He is diagnosed gifted with dyslexia, ahdh, executive function deficits. But he is not a bookish kid by nature who is striving to overcome the LDs. By personality, he is a happy jock who likes to work with his hands and does not want to sit. He has good people skills. You know how in every school there are a few kids for whom a big cheer goes up when their names are read at an assembly? That’s him. He looks like an Abercrombie model but he has not figured that out yet. He is growing up in a loving but scholarly home where TV is controlled, video games don’t exist, no socializing during the week, parents always available to support the sports, talk about life, do yard work together, go to church together (which he does willingly), etc. If he goes away to a dorm without an absolute bee in his bonnet about academic success, he will surely not study much. And we can’t afford to send him initially anyhow, which was one of the initial postulates that accompanied the question.</p>
<p>There has been high quality LD remediation out the wazoo, and it has helped, but ultimately kids with LDs become adults with LDs, and so as they get into their teens and want independence they have to learn to manage while being weaned from formal supports. They must find what it is that they can do to compete successfully in the real world, because employers offers limited accommodations only, no real support.</p>
<p>We don’t insist on college – we would support the trades – it is he who leans toward college, and with his underlying giftedness that might end happily, but it has to proceed rationally. The original question was, how have people seen kids react to touring and applying, where community college must financially be the first stop? Does it inspire, or demoralize? I’m guessing it can go either way, and the person whose input is most valuable is my own kid’s, but I wanted to ask about other people’s experiences.</p>
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<p>I haven’t read anyone here “insisting” he be allowed to go away. Most posters have been giving their opinions, often from the viewpoint of a parent who has had a somewhat similar experience.</p>
<p>Of course, the OP knows her son personally, and we are just voicing what we have learned from what we have seen with our own children. It seems like the OP was actually asking us our opinions, even if they are possibly opposing views.</p>
<p>My stance (and that of a few other posters) is that a lot of maturing can occur between 10th and 12 grade, especially for boys. Yes, a LD may come into play, and certainly, financial constraints are not to be ignored.</p>
<p>OP even restated her question:
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<p>^^ We are doing just that.</p>
<p>For a child who hasn’t excelled in school, but really expresses his desire for a 4-year traditional college experience, I believe college visits can provide some much-needed inspiration. (Even if he needs to begin at community college)</p>
<p>Fields,</p>
<p>I think that part of the problem is that we are are all accustomed to deal with the “what-iffs” if kid wants to do “bad” thinks because of peer pressure. But what if kid wants to go to 4 year college because of peer pressure, and if it is not right for that kid? As parents, don’t we have to help kid to accept that going along with peers may not be the best thing?</p>
<p>So, to summarize your posts–your 2.9 GPA student, who would have a higher GPA elsewhere because of the competitive nature of his school, translating into what 3.3?, can’t get into the schools you think are “appropriate” aka, the top tier ones his friends are looking at, so you are going to fall back on the LD as a reason not to apply to 4 year schools, and especially nothing out of your immediate area because you can’t control how much tv he watches if he goes out of the area. There are 1000 schools he could attend with that GPA but none of them will guarantee him a job when he graduates so you aren’t going to look into them. </p>
<p>To have a 2.9 GPA as a sophomore boy whom you admit doesn’t turn in homework means he is scoring pretty high on his tests, without studying according to you. I guess I just don’t see WHY you think he can’t get into college or better yet SUCCEED in college?? No, he is not getting into HYP…, accept that but there are 1.6 Million 2010 college grads that have jobs that did not attend an Ivy+.</p>
<p>Put it on his shoulders to make the choice. You are going to have to give up the control you want to do that however. When he goes to whatever college he wants, you will pay for that school as long as his GPA is above whatever (3.0 or whatever works). If at the end of the first semester his GPA isn’t acceptable, he comes home and goes to the school you pick. He is NEVER going to own his college career if you dictate all the rules.</p>
<p>mncollegemom, you missed an important factor in field’s dilemma: costs. $80K won’t buy the 4 year college this boy wants to consider. Hence the idea of doing community college for first 2 years.</p>
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<p>There have been a number of threads on CC about boys with executive function problems going off to college and crashing and burning as freshmen. I don’t have a problem with a slow go approach, especially if a family can’t afford a wasted semester/year.</p>
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<p>That depends on the kid, his/her aspirations/self-perceptions, quality of community colleges in area, and school/home environment he/she’s a part of. </p>
<p>For some kids, community college is a great option depending on the above-mentioned factors…especially the first and last factors. For them, community college can be an inspirational starting path. It is a good place for those who need more time to overcome academic weaknesses, mature, and gain skills in a variety of trades/professions. However, this can be variable depending on the quality of a given community college as like 4-year colleges/universities…their quality varies from excellent to abysmal. This is especially the case in high schools where going off to any 4-year institution is a major achievement as in the case of an older friend’s high school where less than 50% of his graduating class went off to any higher-ed institution or qualified to enlist in the armed forces. </p>
<p>For other kids, if those factors are negative…that could cause community college to be a demoralizing factor. That was certainly the case at my urban public magnet where the prevailing culture was that everyone was expected to gain admittance to a highly respectable university/LAC on some sort of scholarship/FA, SUNY/CUNY flagships except the very top ones/niche programs were regarded as options of absolute last resort for those who were at the very bottom of the class, and our perceptions of community colleges were colored by several accostings by CUNY community college students whose institution is located on the path to our high school. </p>
<p>This perception wasn’t helped by recounted experiences of dozens of older alums and classmates who transferred up from the SUNY/CUNY systems to respectable/elite LACs/universities like Reed, CMU, and Cornell because they needed much more of an academic challenge, the bureaucracies were unwilling to help them in that regard, and they ended up graduating from their final undergrad schools with flying colors as STEM majors.</p>
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<p>No, that 80K won’t cover what MOM thinks is an appropriate school and as mentioned in other posts, she has no problem spending that money as long as the college guarantees her son a job when he graduates. Wouldn’t we all like our kids to attend that college. And as also suggested in other posts, have her son figure out how to make up the difference if he doesn’t find a school where that will cover his costs. Isn’t that what 99% of the kids around the country do?</p>
<p>mncollegemom, I think you’re being a bit harsh. Most of us are on this site because we want to educate ourselves to help our kids make the best college decision. That’s what OP is doing, taking into consideration all kinds of issues, including her son’s personality and her own financial constraints.</p>
<p>katliamom-I suppose I am being harsh but educating comes from all directions, not just agreeing with the parent to validate their thinking. That is not educating. I don’t agree that the OP is taking everything into consideration, thus my summary post. The OP has her mind made up where her son will be going and isn’t listening to her son’s wants because she doesn’t believe he can meet the level of success she feels is appropriate. Great, fine, we all want the best for our kids but sometimes our kids have a different idea of what is best for them…and more often than not, they are more right about that than we are.</p>
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<p>The above was the OP’s description of her husband’s academic experience. It is certainly within reason to think that her son may share his father’s potential. </p>
<p>The son has been descibed by OP as “bright,” and “gifted,” albeit with some LD’s. His high school ranking compares him to other (non-LD) students from his
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<p>Most importantly, when mom and dad have brought up their plan of ‘county’, what are the son’s feelings?..
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<p>Sure, he could have a difficult time (if?) when he’s a freshman at college. (And, really, this is not that unusual. Many do go on to pull themselves together later.)
But, to basically discourage him from pursuing a 4-year college at this point may be unwise. </p>
<p>For boys especially, motivation is key. If he is motivated to pursue his plans for a 4-year college, I’d support him. The more the parents talk about ‘county’ school, the less motivated he may become to work hard in high school.</p>
<p>I’d rather err on the side of having expectations that are too high than ones that are too low.</p>