IIT= Harvard + MIT + Princeton

[sucharita]

<p>

i’ve asked my dad about IIT students before, since he’s an executive director in the IT department at morgan stanley. he told me that the iit students that work under him are usually book smart, but have absolutely no street smarts. they have no leadership skills and no personal character.

</p>

<p>Hard to develop any personal character of you do NOTHING but study! And when the male:female ratio is so ghastly :p</p>

<p>Anyway how much meaningful scientific research is IIT producing anyway? Zilch compared to MIT and Caltech.</p>

[SriLankanGangsta]

<p>WELL FRAK ANYONE WHU THINKS THE U.S. sux we rulxors</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>WARNING - VERY long post(s).</p>

<p>I write this now to try to dispel some of the myths that seem to exist about the iits.
how i know some of the things on this post ------
<<<<<</p>

<p>getting down to it,</p>

<p>first and foremost, the respect iit alumni get is, atleast upto 65%, based on the fact tha they were able to clear the ****ing entrance exam. Not necessarily entirely because of the iit ed. for example, the post grads at iit dont get nearly the same respect as undergrads do.

Around 5000+ people take the test and less than 10% make it into one of the 5 IIT’s, making the acceptance rate for each one extremely low. There’s absolutely no doubt that IIT students can kill the standardized tests in america.

</p>

<p>actually, this year around 200,000 took the test for ~4700 places. but you need to understand that the population of india is, well, large. There arent nearly enough good technical institutions here. So, it ends up that atleast half of the guys taking the test are doing just because their parents want them to, and even if they do work day and night for it they know they wont get in.</p>

<p>

Well I can admit IIT is a great school and that only super smart students get accepted. But what IIT lacks is leadership skills. All they care about is how high of a mark you get on a test. Why go to IIT when you’ll probably later be working for some who graduated from Harvard

</p>

<p>That is true when the students first join her, but things change as time progresses. In the short time i’ve been here, i’ve met some amazing fourth-years. And everything here is run by students, so the leadership skills are absolutely essential. People do study, but their focus is only grade-oriented for the first semester, sometimes 2.</p>

<p>

btw IIT grads get the highest intial salaries…esp Comp Engg…

</p>

<p>About that - the salaries (starting) for the guys who take campus interviews and stuff range from 9,000 to 32000 USD (Annual)(more or less). Im not sure how the numbers are when it come to only CSE - for example, last year a guy in materials science got about 34k. I hear that companies see more than your GPA when they pick you. They trust your acad prowess since you got in in the first place, so a GPA (we call it CPI) of 8 above (on a 10 point scale) is considered good enough.

And since the test is so tough, you basically need to stop living in the last two years years of high school, because preparing for IIT with an aim to get in is certainly not going to leave you any free time.

That is absolutely true. The fault may not lie with the IITs, though. As i said eariler, people would kill to get in, and, more often, get their kids in. So kids are forced to work their ass off for atleast 2 years, mostly 3, sometimes 5, sometimes 6. This pushes the averages up. Its part of a vicious cylce, with no end in sight.</p>

<p>

IIT applicants are on a whole different playing field than MIT applicants. If you’ve seen the problems to an IIT entrance exam, you’ll know they’re like the hardest questions in the world. It’s more prestigious that MIT/Harvard/Princeton and only second to Oxford.

That used to be true, but the difficulty of the qustions has been dropping steadily as part of the iit’s attempt to ‘humanize’ the process. There’s, sadly, been huge inertia in the generla population and people still prepare for the insane stuff of the 90’s. That pushes the averages above the roof.
You can find this years questions - and answers - here
<a href=“Page not found : IIT Delhi”>Page not found : IIT Delhi;

<p>

They are all incredibly hard working. Some are smarter than others. Quite a few are socially inept.</p>

<p>IIt students have told me that while getting in is really hard, things get a lot easier once you’re actually in. Maybe it’s because you’re so well prepared after 2-4 years of really rigorous preparatory work.

</p>

<p>Both true. But as i said things change in the 4- or 5-years spent here.</p>

<p>

Working insanely difficult problems will get you a job in a lab, but it won’t get you to the board room. For that, you need to be able to write a coherent sentence and carry on an intelligent conversation, something pure engineers aren’t noted for.

</p>

<p>You have no idea how good these guys are. Some of the guys i’ve interacted with are fcking awesome. They speak excellent english, and their summer projects in the us, europe, etc have given them a slight accent as well. They know exactly what they are talking about, and can fry your mind in just about any topic you choose to pick, be it computer gaming, sports, rock music, engineering, and so on. If they arent well versed in the subject, they go and find someone who is (which generally means the guy sitting next to him). </p>

<p>

Also, to say well this student got rejected from IIT and into Yale doesn’t mean anything.

I agree with this totally.</p>

<p>

Rigorous school work and problems are not the only criteria that a school should be judged on and IIT would have a greater reputation if they provided more than just an intensive and difficult set of classes. They prepare students well for what they are aiming for but to compare “prestige” with HYP I have to say you are all very crazy.

</p>

<p>IIT isnt just school-work. There are loads of clubs here, excellent sports facilities, immemse cultural activities. We have 3 or 4 major festivals every year, of which only one is technical. Even that has almost nothing to do with classes as such. In addition there are many smaller events, so that theres generally something or the other going on. The people here spend as much time on extra-curriculars as they do on their acads.</p>

<p>

Also, a one sided assesment of a school is rarely fair and while IIT unquestionably has high points there are issues with every school

</p>

<p>Of course there are. Who says there aren’t? For example, in IIT Kanpur, the porblems are like such - Not enough girls.(29 out of a batch of 520) And even they stick together in groups of not less than 10. (Atleast so far…) There arent enough places outside the campus to hang out. Kanpur is a pathetic city. There is a considerable amont of tobacco and alcohol on campus (some would consider good, others bad). Drugs are not easy to get in Kanpur, but i know that they are widespread in other IITs. (I think Delhi, Mumbai, Kharagpur - but dont take my word for it on this one)</p>

<p>

THese guys/girls are soo good that when they apply, they use MIT/Harvard/CalTech/Princeton as SAFTIES!!!

</p>

<p>That isnt really correct. It is true in a few cases, but the reasons there are different. The bottom line is $$$. The IIT education costs ~2k USD per year. That includes accomodation and food. In addition, about 50% of the students (in Kanpur atleast) get some financial assistance in the form of scholarships. Also, many people would rather stay in india as opposed to travelling to the other side of the planet for their undergrad program.
But i cannot emphasize this too much - the admission criteria for IITs and HYPSM… are very different. They cannot and should not be compared in the manner you do it here.</p>

<p>

Yes I am sure HYPSM will accept a kid who did nothing for his last 2-4 years of high school studying for a exam that they don’t even look at. THE ETS IS EVIL, you make a lot of sense.

</p>

<p>Exactly what i was trying to say, well put.</p>

<p>

However, they cannot compare to the holistic education of top U.S. school for much else. (However, again, engineering superiority may be enough for many!)

That may not be very true. It is certainly true that in 11th and 12th there is lopsided development, but things change once one actually gets in. Now i dont really know what you mean by ‘holistic education’ (well, i do in general, but not very specifically) </p>

<p>

These are an IIT questions for eighth graders in India.</p>

<ol>
<li>What is a bathyscaphe?</li>
<li>Barbituric acid is a) a hypnotic b) an antiseptic c) an anesthetic d) an antipyretic</li>
<li>a, b, c are the digits of a number system with x digits. Determine the value of the number.</li>
<li>Why does the life not originate abiotically in the present day atmosphere?</li>
<li>Give a technical name for cartilage cells.</li>
</ol>

<p>If these are 8th grade level, imagine what the actual questions would be like…these guys are truly math/science freaks…

</p>

<p>Biology isnt tested in the IITJEE. so questions 4, 5 are out.
I dont even know the answer to the first one.
If you got these questions from a legitimate source, then i suppose this just proves what i was saying. People in India truly believe that studying stuff 1 or 2 years before its meant to be taught can make up for the lack of intelligence. Thats the cause of the whole mess.

With this, I’m retired from this thread because it has grown to an issue of self-pride and patrioism rather than a debate of substantiated evidence.

I will be happy to provide any evidence you need.</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>

i’ve asked my dad about IIT students before, since he’s an executive director in the IT department at morgan stanley. he told me that the iit students that work under him are usually book smart, but have absolutely no street smarts. they have no leadership skills and no personal character. then he said the only reason why IIT is so hard to get into is b/c it’s basically THE university that everyone wants to get into in india. (and we all know how many people are in india). here in the u.s, there’s plenty of excellent schools to choose from.

</p>

<p>The last sentence of this is very true. </p>

<p>About Morgan Stanley - if they thought the iitians were just book smarts, why do they take so many of them? (this is a serious, honest question. And not just about Morgan Stanley)</p>

<p>

Anyway how much meaningful scientific research is IIT producing anyway? Zilch compared to MIT and Caltech.

True. Kanpur atleast has a lot of research going on, although there havent been many spectacular developments. There have been a few, though.</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>

WELL FRAK ANYONE WHU THINKS THE U.S. sux we rulxors

</p>

<p>I have no idea what that means.</p>

[Harvard_Genius]

<p>Thats a complete joke there… Although an exceptionally good college, it isnt better than Harvard or MIT in any aspect. Princeton, definetly it is. The only college in the world that can be said to equal Harvard+MIT+Princeton is the notorious Oxford. IIT are just a bunch of indians who will become lazy engineers because they worked so damn hard in college (seriously).</p>

[wallflowers]

<p>The original poster misquoted the 60 Minutes segment. Lesley Stahl of CBS on 60 Minutes said: “Put Harvard, MIT and Princeton together and you get to an idea of the status of IITs in India.” She referred to the prestige that comes to those who attend IIT, not necessarily to the academic rigor or academic excellence of IIT.</p>

<p>Without a doubt, IITs are some of the best science and engineering institutions in the world and are also known for their rigor. However, the IITs aren’t as well funded as US universities, such as Harvard, MIT or Caltech.</p>

<p>One of the least well-known institutions in India is the Indian Institute of Science (IISc). IISc was founded before the IITs and is the oldest science/engineering university in India. It has been continously ranked the best science university in India by several ranking organizations. Furthermore, IISc has recently received hundreds of millions in funding from the Indian government - in the hopes of raising IISc to the status of research institutions such as Harvard and MIT.</p>

<p>While the IITs and IISc may not necessarily be better than Harvard or MIT, they are better than many other institutions across the globe. I’m unbiased in this remark because my parents are alumni of IIT and IISc.</p>

[hurdlesrock]

<p>IIT is the best of the best (waaaayyy better than H+M+P)</p>

[legendofmax]

<p>A lot of its prestige comes from its crazy low acceptance rate. Don’t forget that an absurdly high number of people apply.</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>

@Harvard Genius

Thats a complete joke there… Although an exceptionally good college, it isnt better than Harvard or MIT in any aspect. Princeton, definetly it is. The only college in the world that can be said to equal Harvard+MIT+Princeton is the notorious Oxford. IIT are just a bunch of indians who will become lazy engineers because they worked so damn hard in college (seriously).

</p>

<p>And you pride yourself on communication skills, objectivity, and knowledgeable… ha</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>

However, the IITs aren’t as well funded as US universities, such as Harvard, MIT or Caltech.

Yes. That is very true. Noone i know will contradict that.</p>

[hurdlesrock]

<p>"IIT are just a bunch of indians who will become lazy engineers "</p>

<p>uhh i have no idea what your talking about…“lazy”…not really indians are one of the most hardworking people during and after college…(watch your words)</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>

One of the least well-known institutions in India is the Indian Institute of Science (IISc). IISc was founded before the IITs and is the oldest science/engineering university in India. It has been continously ranked the best science university in India by several ranking organizations. Furthermore, IISc has recently received hundreds of millions in funding from the Indian government - in the hopes of raising IISc to the status of research institutions such as Harvard and MIT.

</p>

<p>IISc does have a rep as good as, or maybe even better than the IITs but the point is that the IISc is for grad and post grad, with very few courses in undergrad.</p>

[Harvard_Genius]

<p>I will agree with the fact that the prestigie is equivalent; however, the school itself doesnt compare not merely because of funding deficiencies, but because the students there are not as intelligent as those in America. They only work hard so that one day they will work for us :)</p>

[hurdlesrock]

<p>once again…“Harvard Genius”…you make no sense…my SAT tutor went to IIT…“students there are not as intelligent as those in America.”…they are twice as intelligent as students in america…</p>

[legendofmax]

<p>Let’s all just throw around more generalizations weee</p>

[Harvard_Genius]

<p>Im not saying the smartest students in India arent twice as smart than the average of america. I dont care where your tutor went to, I go to Harvard and I can tell you that we are the most intelligent people in the world :). I obviously more to argue against someone who uses the excuse that his SAT tutor is from IIT to make IIT better than Harvard, MIT, and Princeton. I never said IIT was bad, it just doesnt compare to any of those 3.</p>

[taj]

<p>hey shashank,
thnks for clarifying all the generalizations…n’ways do the IITs still have the NRI quota…I remember they did away with it a couple o’ years ago…
btw…congrats on making it to IIT…u must be a fckin genius!</p>

<p>i got those IIT questions from a ‘Brilliant Tutorials’, a reputable IIT coaching center in India, 8th grade book…i tried to start preppin for the JEE from 8th grade…but gave up and it ate up too much of my time…</p>

<p>also…do the IITs receive donations like HYMPS? honestly, IIT eduacation is a better deal the HYPM education…compare 2 gran a year to aroun 42 gran a year!!</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>

n’ways do the IITs still have the NRI quota…I remember they did away with it a couple o’ years ago…

</p>

<p>the quota isnt there anymore. You need to clear the JEE. </p>

<p>

i got those IIT questions from a ‘Brilliant Tutorials’, a reputable IIT coaching center in India, 8th grade book…i tried to start preppin for the JEE from 8th grade…but gave up and it ate up too much of my time…

</p>

<p>Briliant tutorials is, well, exactly the kind of thing i was talking of. That level of questioning is stupid and its requirements unfounded. They(and others like them) are the guys who are making life hell for high school students. </p>

<p>

also…do the IITs receive donations like HYMPS? honestly, IIT eduacation is a better deal the HYPM education…compare 2 gran a year to aroun 42 gran a year!!

</p>

<p>Yes they do. The IITs recieve heavy funding from the government (by indian standards. no where near american levels) as well as money from other companies, research grants, and more recently, from IIT alumni.</p>

[shash_rao]

<p>

They only work hard so that one day they will work for us

</p>

<p>You couldnt be more wrong.</p>

<p>

I go to Harvard and I can tell you that we are the most intelligent people in the world

</p>

<p>I don’t know what to say. I havent seen such conceit ever in my life. Since I respect Harvard as an institution, I am going to assume that all the undergrads there aren’t as conceited as you are. I know for a fact that the post-docs aren’t, but i dont really know any undergrad students there.</p>