I'm Baffled at Rejection From Some Great Schools

Applying to College
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I have two reactions from this thread.

One is that it reminds me of how random and unpredictable admissions is in the US, how little top stats buys a student, how much “diversity” matters, how stressful this all is for students, how pissed I am about the overall process, and how I am glad that we don’t have to play that game (being a dual citizen and a parent of dual citizens, even if we live in the US). I will remember this again when I get called again in a few months (it is almost time) by my two alma maters asking for donations.

But there is another thing that comes to mind that is probably less important overall, but way more important for OP: I have worked with people who graduated from MIT, Stanford, Harvard, U.Michigan, and many other schools. The people that I know from U.Michigan are second to NO ONE. The U.Michigan graduates that I have worked with or in one case studied with (a fellow student when I was in graduate school) have been exceptional. They might have been exceptional if they have graduated from any one of 20 or 40 other schools, but they certainly did very well with a U.Michigan degree.

I sincerely doubt that U.Michigan is a safety for any out of state student. However, OP you are already accepted there. Based at least on what I have heard and on the U.Michigan graduates that I have known it is superb. You will do very well there.

Feel free to be as annoyed as I am about the process, but don’t lose sight of what a strong school you will get to attend. Expect it to be every bit as challenging as MIT or Stanford or any other school that you might or might not have attended instead.

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@DadTwoGirls:
“One is that it reminds me of how random and unpredictable admissions is in the US, how little top stats buys a student, how much “diversity” matters, how stressful this all is for students, how pissed I am about the overall process, and how I am glad that we don’t have to play that game (being a dual citizen and a parent of dual citizens, even if we live in the US).”

Fair. Though note that in Canada, he likely would have ended up at a school at the level of UMich anyway, and in the UK where the top schools (at the level of UMich or higher) all require the equivalent of 3-5 5’s on APs, he may not have qualified for any high-end uni.

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I think why this thread is so popular is due the post by the OP. I’m on the OP’s side and would love to get to know him over a cold beverage, but I’d wager some of his entertaining but prickly radioactively must have leaked through into the application essays and rubbed the admission personnel the wrong way.

All the schools listed are long shots for nearly EVERYONE. The stars must line up in order to be accepted and it would have been within the realm of possibilities to strike-out applying to every single one, even without a minor flaw. Speaking from experience, it’s really hard not to take it personally but some how one has to turn the page and move on.

Congratulations on becoming the latest Wolverine!

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As someone with nearly the exact same stats as OP, I was absolutely ecstatic at an acceptance to Michigan. I’m OOS, so I definitely didn’t consider UMich a safety, and I’m currently leaning towards attending. Good stats (and ec’s) are just not always enough anymore. Please don’t look down on a school so many great students worked so hard to get into. The students admitted and in attendance are not of a lower academic caliber than you are. In any case, I really wish you the best of luck. I hope you end up somewhere you’re happy. Go blue!

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OP- I know you are feeling very disappointed with your current results, but you still have a few schools left to hear from, and you got accepted to an amazing school. You say you’re baffled by your results, and came here asking for some sort of feed back, so I’ll add my two cents: you don’t sound very humble.
Your OP came across as arrogant to me (just my opinion), so as smart and accomplished as you are in certain areas of your life, perhaps you missed the mark and came off a little too boastful?

Michigan is an amazing school, be proud of all you accomplished and enjoy the success you achieved thus far.

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(if you didn’t want to get into umich so badly, then why did you apply??) i get it, its a safety and definitely not your first choice, but a lot of people did not get into that school. As for case and washu… why would anybody think those are safeties? I’m a 16 year old graduating early with around a 4.0 but even for me that would not be a safety, embrace the schools you have gotten into and honestly maybe try and take a hopeful attitude rather than an angry one. you put in a lot of work with the cards and the hours for the essay but everything works out in the end and you’ve got a really good shot with the ivies.

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Hi Milee30. First of all, congratulations on your amazing achievements! You sound crazy smart. I am new to this process to be honest, so I don’t fully understand how these decisions are made, but if I had to guess, I would say that some of these schools did not accept you because they thought it was unlikely you would go. They may have assumed you were trying for ivies and didn’t want to “waste” an acceptance on you. I think there is a decent chance you will get into one of the remaining schools to which you have applied although the ivies are always a crapshoot. If you liked Case Western better than Michigan, follow up on the waitlist and let them know that you really want to go there. They may be assuming you would not pick them and want to see your interest. Schools want to accept students that they know want to go there. Good luck.

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Case Western is need aware. If you are not high full pay, then the waitlist should not be a surprise.

I’m not sure why you’d expect Northwestern to be a “safe acceptance”. They had a 9% acceptance rate last year. It will most likely be lower this year. They frequently reject high stat applicants using a holistic admissions system that emphasizes far more that stats. A portion of what type of holistic “fit” they are looking for is on their website at http://admissions.northwestern.edu/apply/the-fit-factor.html . They also consider demonstrated interest, suggesting that they do not want to be just a backup “safe acceptance.” They want students who are truly enthusiastic about the school.

The more surprising (to me) decisions are WUSTL and USC. Both tend to place more emphasis on stats than Northwestern, Ivies, Stanford, and the like. However, some of this may be an effect of their focus on NMSs.

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The RD admit rate is 6.4% for Northwestern (8.4% overall). Among the ones you listed, Northwestern is by far the most difficult to get in but somehow you thought it was safer than WashU/USC. You also wrote NorthWestern instead of Northwestern not once but twice; did you come across as clueless about Northwestern in your “Why NU” essay? With the admit rate of 6.4%, your margin error is extremely small even if your stats are great on paper.

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2018/03/24/campus/northwestern-acceptance-rate-falls-to-8-4-percent/

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I suspect that the OP has gotten the point that getting an offer from Michigan is a noteworthy achievement.

Maybe it is time for kind, constructive comments as this is an 18 or 17 year old high achiever who came to CC for advice from more experienced folks.

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@Data10 That link to Northwestern’s “fit” page is fantastic. Its an excellent way to think about presenting yourself for any college application. I bookmarked it. Thanks.

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It’s because you’re not in the 5% that they accept for applicants. Every one of these schools has a 95% chance of being rejected. After you reach a certain point in your stats, it’s impossible to stand out. Everyone of the 30,000 applications look identical. They all have a 4.0 with a 1500 SAT. All of them can write great essays. Who in their right mind wants that kind of competition? My dad told gave me some wise words when I was your age. He said, “Get over it and move on.” :slight_smile:

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I think that saying other students are less qualified than you is a little sad. I’m sure that they worked just as hard as you to get excepted and remember that academics and extracurriculars are not everything. There is also the essay components that stand out. I assume that when you’re applying to a stellar college where other equally competitive and smart students are going to apply to, it’s really going to come down to the type of person you are, which is often shown in the essays. I also agree with what others have said before… it looks to me like you only applied to tops schools assuming that you’ll get in… they are called Ivys for a reason! Also, college isn’t just about the name. You’ve applied to many well known colleges, which is not bad, but I’m sure that there are colleges that will offer you great scholarships to leave you debt free afterwards. Another thing I just want to add is that it looks like you loaded a lot of you’re extracurriculars your senior year. Real commitment often starts back in freshman year or at least earlier years… it makes it look like you’re only doing it for the college app than anything else in my opinion… I’m glad you’re ranting but keep in mind that not everybody is perfect. We are all different and colleges are often looking for a particular set of students… don’t be taken aback with your rejections when you got into one of the top public universities in the nation!

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One thing that hasn’t really been discussed thus far is how incredibly random and subjective the entire process is. The combination of “holistic” admissions and an oversupply of applicants relative to the number of available spaces means that admission and rejection is often decided by the flip of a coin. Here’s an article on how the weather noticeably affects admission decisions: https://www.admissionsprep.net/feed/rejected-from-ivy-blame-it-on-the-weather.

People have detailed a number of feasible reasons in this thread for your rejections. But it might help to just remind yourself that the entire process is a total crap-shoot.

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I think it’s possible colleges are stepping back this crazy process and looking for “normal kids”. Perfect scores, 4.0+ GPA’s and a laundry list of EC’s that include Awards, Leadership positions, and Community Service.

Some schools are looking for more balanced kids in the 1300’s and 1400’s with non-perfect GPA’s and perhaps activities that seem more genuine.

Or, perhaps it’s about yield protection. Or perhaps it was just a very tough year due to # applications.

It would be nice if this were all more clear. I also think Admissions needs to start putting some guidelines around the process, like limiting # schools, limiting number of times you can re-take SAT or ACT, and only considering un-weighted grades perhaps. I don’t have the answers, these are merely suggestions of things to look at.

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I don’t think it is a total crap shoot. If it were, how would you explain students getting into all 8 Ivies and MIT and Stanford? Some have assembled an application that really shines. Not luck.

Those 100,000 applications to UCLA are not created equally. Some applicants really are better, or the child of a former president or movie star, or a sports star. Some have written an essay that jumps out at the admissions officer, or is from the same small town as the admissions officer’s grandmother.

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Some students definitely do standout. But the vast majority of each entering class at elite schools do not consist of such people. Consider the “rounded” vs “pointy” discussion. The reason this has been happens to an extent is because students are recognizing how random the selection of admitted “rounded” candidates is. Of course, this just moves the source of entropy from “how do I pick from these students” to “what is it we’re looking for in the class this year”.

Sometimes the way in which people standout, such as being “from the same small town as the admissions officer’s grandmother” are luck based subjective factors that have little to do with a students capabilities or potential. It can be reassuring for applicants to tell themselves that the process is “correct”, and will definitely reward them for their hard work. But it is unfortunately a delusion.

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The vast majority of the decision process is controlled and predictable. However, it may appear random to an outside observer who focuses on stats or rank in HS class and sees that the decisions don’t follow these objective, numerical measures well at holistic, highly selective colleges. What a selective college bases their admissions decision on may be quite different from what the typical stellar students thinks the college should base their admission decision on.

For example, suppose the OP thought of Northwestern as a back up safety and instead was really interested in YPS. As such his essays to Northwestern were mostly cut and paste with a few words changed, including spelling the school name as “NorthWestern,” like was done in the post, and not saying anything specific about what separated Northwestern from other alternative colleges. If this had occurred, he probably wouldn’t do well in the demonstrated interest category, which is considered at Northwestern. Suppose the “pretty good” LORs were not impressive compared to the applicant pool. This might put the OP at a notable disadvantage to other students who had LORs that really stood out among the applicant pool. Suppose the essays, LOR, interview and rest of the app did not display the “fit” criteria described on the website well including intellectual curiosity, involvement in the community, displaying desired character, and such There are countless explanations for the decision that may not be obvious to the outside observer, yet still are predictable and consistent to the NU admission staff and not “random.”

I once tried to see if I could create a simple formula that would predict the decisions among posters in the Stanford RD thread of this site. Acceptance had a slight negative correlation with stats, yet I was still able to predict 80-90% of posted decisions correctly, even with huge holes missing such as essays and LORs. Today I interview for Stanford. Admissions decisions for students I have interviewed show a remarkable correlation between my interview ratings because I am rating on very similar categories to what Stanford says they are looking for on their website. I’ve yet to be especially surprised by a decision among students I’ve interviewed. The decisions certainly do not appear “random.”

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I am really shocked by all the feedback. This thread has really exploded. I have read through every post since and I would like to offer some clarification and counterpoints. Please note that I am not responding to everything, (I would be here a while) and I have found many posts other than these to be both constructive and comforting.

@sunnyschool (#45) I did visit each of these schools before apps except Michigan ironically. I did my best to show unique interest in every school. If I felt I had nothing college specific enough I didn’t apply. It’s how my list came to be. It’s difficult when I planned (and felt obliged) to apply to so many competitive schools. I really tend to think that yield protection is a comforting lie. At least at this level. I could buy that excuse for a local college, but I don’t think CWRU is rejecting anyone based on overqualification.

@milee30 (#54) I only listed it as semesters because I felt it was more clear than classes. If I said 11 AP classes and 5 dual enrollment classes it would severely misrepresent the time commitment because each dual enrollment course was half that of the AP courses. Regardless, nowhere in my actual application did I personally write that stat, or that I broke my school’s record. The AO would have had to infer both from my transcript (and obviously they wouldn’t know the school record).

@PurpleTitan (#61) My AP scores are admittedly low considering the rest of my stats. With so many courses it became very overwhelming to prepared for 3-4 exams each year. Also, freshman year I did worse on a couple simply from lack of experience and discipline in work ethic.

@BennyBop (#90) I get that I sound very radioactive in my original post. It is undeniable. That said, the only medium anyone here knows me from is an anonymous paragraph that I wrote in anger and depression. If my post here comes off as boastful, it’s because it is. The point of this thread was to say “I’m incredible, why is this happening.” The forum will project me as far more arrogant and entitled than I would ever appear in a college app or in person. In fact, many of my friends hardly know I’m anything unusual academically because I don’t like talking about it. Perhaps discussing all my MTG achievements comes off as boastful in my personal essay, but there is hardly a way to recount all the relevant facts while not coming off as boastful. Oh, and I too enjoy cold beverages.

@Mimi2018 (#92) ^^^^^

@CheddarcheeseMN (#87)
“Oh, but I am a middle/ upper-income white male, so that was a definite disadvantage. I forgot that bit.”
This comment was more directed at income bracket and ethnicity rather than sex. I don’t think being male is a definite disadvantage, it was more a combination of all three descriptors. Although I am not in the most competitive bracket, I do feel it is a disadvantage compared to many alternatives.

@jym626 (#85) My post was very specifically not about Ivy league rejections. I am discussing (some) marginally less competitive schools and I am doing so with one of the strongest and most unique apps I know about. Before you lump me in with all the other heartbroken rejectees, I challenge you to find another person with as strong an application who was waitlisted from CWRU.

@austinmshauri (#77) I am aware that high stats and scores alone won’t get me into a great school. That said, my entitlement is not of my own making. All my school career teacher, counselors, and other students have told me I was amazing. Aside from school records, I was far ahead in math. I took BC calc. freshman year. I once read a newspaper article about a local ‘prodigy student.’ He was at my same level. I’d like to think I stand out to some degree.
You can always find someone better or worse off in the college game, but my lack of enthusiasm for U of M is not meant to degrade anyone who didn’t make it. The same could be said of every single student who had to settle for anything short of their dream school. There is always somebody who would gladly step into your shoes, but that doesn’t make every problem you face egotistical.

@IWannaHelp (#96) My appraisal of Northwestern was not fair. I shouldn’t have called it a “safe acceptance” and I would change it if I could (but I really did think that of CWRU). A better description would be highly optimistic. I did feel more comfortable going into Northwestern than USC or WashU because I thought I showed a lot of interest. My “why NU” statement was full of specifics from my tour and their programs. It was far from generic. Their commitment to students who show interest leads me to believe I was safer there than at the slightly less competitive alternatives.

@Data10 ^^^^
(An aside, can we stop attacking my capitalization of “NorthWestern.” It was a mistake. There are typos and grammatical errors in well over half the posts on this thread. It is an internet forum, the rules are lax. I read through my entire Northwestern app, and I never actually made that mistake on the app. The original post criticizing my capitalization (#96) has two independent clauses connected with a conjunction and no comma. Nobody cares, and I don’t think they should.)

@Themediator1 (#100) You say its sad that I claimed other less qualified students were accepted. Those were their words, not mine. I have had students accepted to CWRU and NU tell me that they thought I had a stronger application and was more likely to get in. That said, this analysis was purely objective and perhaps I did get outshined in essays and LOR. None of these peers were familiar with my essays, nor I there’s. Also, nowhere did I say that I personally had an expectation to get into an ivy league school.
My EC are rather focused on my senior year. I joined a few things with my free time after I stopped playing MTG at the same unholy level I had been playing my first three years of high school. Although I wasn’t loading for college apps, it does appear that way. It’s a valid knock on my app I hadn’t considered.

@HRSMom (#70) I hope that you take the time to read these and realize that I am a very self-aware individual. Of this, I am sure.

@intparent (#75) @Postmodern (#72 and #74) Pointing out a lack of self-awareness can be constructive criticism and is welcome. This is of course only if it is supported by evidence and rational. @HRSMom did not provide either, but that doesn’t mean her point was harmful or misguided; it was simply not constructive.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

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@SadStrong I checked back because i was hoping you were going to post some ivy day acceptances and we could write the others off as yield protection. I’m sorry.
Although it was somewhat unfortunately phrased, I would have thought you would have gotten into some more schools too. This was an absolutely brutal year. The admissions rates are so low. I think the only real takeaway is that it’s more important than ever to get into your ED choice.

Go to Michigan and kill it there. Your good study skills will translate into a great job or grad school. Best of luck!