I'm Graduating From A College I Can’t Afford - NYU

<p>

</p>

<p>Here is the fallacy with Financial Aid. Someone has to pay for it.</p>

<p>Now for the few schools with huge endowments (HYP) - their past donors are doing so through gifts to their endowments which help them fund big FA awards</p>

<p>For the majority of colleges - they have no where near the endowment needed to fund FA - so they either</p>

<ol>
<li><p>stick it to those who can pay - charging them more than the true cost of admission, so they can discount tuition for those who can’t. An absurd system as any around.</p></li>
<li><p>provide FA in the form or loans. While hard on the student, this is clearly more of a fair and reasonable approach than 1 above</p></li>
</ol>

<p>There is no magic source of FA funds - either people borrow it, cost shift or have very generous donors</p>

<p>Bundle, I know two kids who left NYU for financial reasons. Both got some aid from NYU, and lived on the cheap (as much as possible in Manhattan) but in the end could not justify the massive amount of debt they were incurring. Both kids now say they regret having gone to NYU in the first place, because they found the transfer process both painful and disruptive.</p>

<p>I am completely blown away by the responses - both positive and negative - that my article (Yes, I’m wrote Graduating From A College I Can’t Afford!) has received on this forum. Moreover, I’m thrilled that so many of the underlying issues regarding paying for college and student loans have surfaced in this discussion, which was my intent when writing this personal essay in the first place. I know many of you have asked questions about my whereabouts and current financial situation, so I’d like to bring everybody interested up to speed and clarify some points as well. </p>

<p>I had wanted to attend NYU since my freshman year of high school because I knew early on that I wanted to study journalism. Applying to NYU was not some big pipe dream to live in NYC for a few years and study performing arts as one of you suggested. NYU was one of the best schools I had learned of and had a prestigious journalism program that would no-doubt grant me access to our country’s top publishing companies while I studied there. (And for the record, I didn’t play soccer and join clubs because I felt like I had too. Soccer was the love of my life since age 4 and I enjoyed every minute I spent with my peers in afterschool activities. It just so happens that when in high school it’s ingrained in your head that colleges like students who do X,Y, and Z, so who in their right mind wouldn’t try to overachieve in that department to make themselves look as good as possible on paper? And keep in mind, there’s also this little thing called editing when you write a piece for publication.)</p>

<p>When it came time to apply to colleges, there was never a discussion in my HS’ college admissions office about what I could afford. The conversations were always about what school you had a chance of getting accepted by, so naturally when I got my acceptance letter from NYU I felt like I had indeed earned it – and yes even deserved it, based on academics of course, not some notion of being entitled or having a “spoiled” upbringing. It was a sad reality that I didn’t want to face when my mother (my parents divorced when I was 13) sat me down and explained that she would not be able to contribute more than the equivalent of one semester to my education expenses. I had friends whose parents were footing the bill for their college education and others that were taking out student loans. Isn’t that what everyone does? </p>

<p>For me, my mother 1. Simply did not have the money to contribute (which I should mention had absolutely nothing to do with lavish vacations and a fancy things – we were very much middle- to lower-middle class that was still dealing with the financial issues that follow after a 2-income household becomes a 1-income household), 2. She did not feel obligated to pay for my college career because she herself had worked and paid her way through school 25 years earlier and 3. My parents had helped me save nearly $25,000 for my college career over my lifetime, but that just wasn’t enough. Saving for college was an expense they were more and more aware of, but it wasn’t at the top of their list, and understandably so since it wasn’t until I was in high school (1999-2003) that college costs started to rise at record rates and saving for your kid’s education became such a hot topic, until it was too late.</p>

<p>Despite financial worries, I made my decision – and it was MY decision as I was paying for more than 90% of my education – to attend NYU after MUCH resistance from my parents. Some of you have mentioned I was naïve and I couldn’t agree more. An 18-year-old does not and cannot understand how taking out such a large sum of loans will affect their future. You can explain until you’re blue in the face, but it means nothing when paying the bill seems so far off in life and the social norm. I do not blame my parents, as some of you have. I do not blame NYU, as some of you have. It is the system of higher education that is at fault. A few of you hit exactly on what the problem is too: at 18 you are an adult, yet your need for financial aid is based on your parents’ need whether or not they are willing to pay for any or all your schooling. Seems incredibly fraught to me. Especially when I would have received much more financial aid if I had moved out when I was 18, declared myself an independent and applied for financial aid on my own. But then again, this was not something they suggested in the financial aid office at my high school either. </p>

<p>I packed my bags and moved into New York City – where I lived and studied for my freshman and sophomore years of college. By halfway through my sophomore year when I applied for another private student loan over $15,000 I knew that something had to give, so I decided to move back home to my mother’s house and commute for the rest of school to save money the best way I could. I held a part-time job all four years of school and supported myself completely. I paid for my own food, clothing, car insurance, gas, social activities – you name it. I considered transferring a couple of times to save money because student loans were constantly stressing me out, but I thought what good was attending at all if I don’t get my diploma from NYU after how much I had already invested. Besides that, what kept me going were the professionals I was studying under and the experiences from internships that I had started to take on (which I still believe were made possible because I attended NYU and was in/so close to NYC). </p>

<p>Fast-forward to graduation. I had already began paying back some of my government loans because I consolidated them as soon as I was able to lock in at a lower interest rate. I deferred payment on my private student loans – which were the bulk of my debt – for 6 months after graduation to get my feet on the ground but still had to pay interest (nearly $200 per month alone). Luckily, I had landed a job at a major consumer magazine (which I previously interned at) as an editorial assistant in March 2007, two months before I graduated. I was promoted to Assistant Editor less than a year later and again to Associate Editor less than eight months after that. My growing – but still modest! – salary eventually allowed me start to pay off my monthly student loan bill, which at it’s highest was over $850. (Because I haven’t consolidated my private student loans yet (I would have had to lock in at a higher interest rate to do so) and the interest rate is variable, I have the unexpected benefit of paying 2.5% interest currently because of the market, which brings my payments down to about $660 per month.) Unfortunately, with private student loans there are not many options when it comes to repayment and consolidation right now. I am still waiting to lock in at an interest rate that’s reasonable, and therefore I’m stuck with paying large sums each month for the next 10 years. </p>

<p>While this monthly payment is insanely large, I do make ends meet. I have to. Period. I never moved back into the city and to this day commute from Long Island to work. I don’t have a fancy car – I drive a beat up 1999 Jeep to avoid unnecessary car payments (when I already pay $300 in train tickets) and my car sits at the train station. I don’t, however, eat Ramen like I did back in college. I shop smart when it comes to food and clothes and stick to a budget! While I’m strict with my spending because I have to be, I in no way feel like I’m missing out on anything money can buy. In fact, I’m completely happy with my life and my job and I love where I am right now. I got married last year - thankfully my husband has a tenth of my student loan debt! – and we’re currently saving for a house. We live in the apartment in my husband’s parents’ house where we pay rent but still try to put money away each month. Is it hard? Absolutely. But so was saving for our wedding and we managed that too. It’s only natural that I wonder if my student loans weren’t so large if we could own a house already. But then I remind myself that I’m not even 25 and with the state of the economy and the housing market I’m doing pretty damn well.</p>

<p>I completely despise the amount I write on that check to Citibank each month, but I can’t say I completely “regret” going to NYU because I’ve ended up exactly where I wanted to be. I went to my dream school. I landed my dream job. I do of course wish that I could have paid a quarter of the price and got the same results. But no one can say if it all would have happened the same way for me. I do think I am motivated enough of a person to achieve my dreams no matter what, but I like many high school students out there, felt pressured by this so-called hype of going to the best school possible. </p>

<p>I also want to remind everyone that the financial perspective of a student graduating from high school in 2003 was much different from those about to graduate in 2010. Seven years ago this country was not in a recession. 18-year-olds weren’t witnessing their parents’ finances changing rapidly before their eyes – they were watching them live normal life and take out loans for just about everything because that’s they way the middle- and lower- class survived. The bottom line is that nearly ten years ago, a lot of us signed up for much more than we would be able to handle in our future. Had I seen what 18-year-olds today are seeing, I’d like to think I would have better understood what signing all those loan papers would have meant for my future. </p>

<p>When students come to me after reading my article and ask what they should do, I advise them not to take out the loans if they can get a similar education for less somewhere else. Reason being, I think employers understand better today that the best pool of applicants no longer comes from the “best colleges” because most people can’t afford to go to those schools anymore. While a lot has changed, much more needs to change to make sure students like myself make better, more informed decisions about college and that they aren’t swayed by societal pressures when it comes to choosing a school.</p>

<p>For now, I just keep looking forward.</p>

<p>Thank you for posting! I appreciated hearing how you are doing and clarification on what was said in your essay.</p>

<p>I just have to mention this…</p>

<p>“Especially when I would have received much more financial aid if I had moved out when I was 18, declared myself an independent and applied for financial aid on my own.”</p>

<p>THAT is not an option either, which really irks me. I have a friend who was promptly kicked out of his parents house at 18 and it doesn’t make a difference, his parents income determines his aid, they won’t cosign a private loan, and so until he can earn enough credit to take one himself or he turns 24 he just doesn’t get to go. The only way to become an independent is to turn the right age, get married, have a kid, or maybe if your parents die or something. THAT is the part that really gets me. We have NO OPTION to apply on our own pretty much no matter what the circumstances are. I would have done WHATEVER it took to be able to file myself (except rush my marriage, which we actually briefly considered before deciding it was worth 50k each to wait… something I still wonder about), but there isn’t any way to do it.</p>

<p>TJEDLICKA- I appreciated your post and hearing your point of view. Most of the posting reflect the parent’s views and it is nice to hear from a student who made a choice and is willing to live by that choice. And by the way, I don’t think it was a bad choice, it sounds like a good one for you.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>twisted- I agree that stinks for your friend. However I do understand why students are not just allowed to declare themselves independent for financial aid purposes. Every other upper middle class student would do so and parents would encourage it as a way to get out of paying for their child’s college. I have a friend who was in a similar situation, she attended cc for 2 years then transferred to a state school to finish. It wasn’t easy but she did it.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>I completely despise the amount I write on that check to Citibank each month, but I can’t say I completely “regret” going to NYU because I’ve ended up exactly where I wanted to be.
<<<<<<<<<<<</p>

<p>Thanks for giving us the update! :)</p>

<p>I have to take “issue” with the above. :slight_smile: You say that you got married last year, and you’re not yet 24. That would suggest that you got married when you were 22ish. You also mention that your H doesn’t have 1/10th the student loans that you have, AND that you’re renting an “apt” in your in-laws’ home. </p>

<p>The reality is this: You’re not truly paying your student loans out of your salary. Your H (and your in-laws) are helping you (surely the rent they charge is less than what a regular apt would cost.) Your H’s salary helps provide for your living expenses.</p>

<p>You married very young. Few students who take out student loans marry soon after graduation and then have a second income and cheap “parent” rent so that they have more money to pay their expenses and debts.</p>

<p>You say that you “despise” the check that you write to Citibank each month. Well, let’s imagine how you’d feel if you weren’t married and were having to pay “real” rent and only have access to your own income. I think you would be truly regretting the debt. And, imagine if your spouse had the debt load you have? :frowning: You certainly would not be on your way to saving for your first home. </p>

<p>I’m not trying to be harsh. You’ve done a great thing by telling your story. :slight_smile: In some ways, I’m kind of using your story as an argument that no one should attempt such a thing, because only a tiny percent would be married so young with a second income and reduced housing to help out.</p>

<p>I’m glad that things will work out for you, but please note, that you could easily be living quite a miserably, economically tight, life right now, if you were having to completely support yourself and and your debt.</p>

<p>Congrats on your marriage. :)</p>

<p>Page 1 scares me…i do not even WANT to move on</p>

<p>But the above debate is GREAT :)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Just to clarify for anyone reading this and getting ideas-- one cannot “declare” themselves independent just by moving out!</p>

<hr>

<h2>The reality is this: You’re not truly paying your student loans out of your salary. Your H (and your in-laws) are helping you (surely the rent they charge is less than what a regular apt would cost.) Your H’s salary helps provide for your living expenses.</h2>

<p>mom2collegekids - While I understand the point you are trying to make, it’s not fair to attribute my being able to stay afloat to my husband and in-laws. While I don’t feel it’s necessary to get into the numbers in my bank account, I can tell you that I could most definitely be financially independent and I would be able to afford an apartment (not one in NYC, but an apartment) and pay my student loans completely on my own with the salary I make and it’s because I have chosen what’s important to me and what’s not. I decided against the new car, against taking expensive vacations, against going out to dinner, against shopping for new clothes all the time so I can save my money instead. If my circumstances were different I could use the money I’m saving to pay rent on my own if I needed to. </p>

<p>But that’s neither here nor there, because the point you make is one about people in my situation in general and the possible outcomes. And you’re right, it’s most likely not going to work out for others as it did for me. (I was lucky to get promoted twice in less than 12 months at my job, without which I probably wouldn’t be saving for a house and would be eating Ramen noodles.)</p>

<p>But I do agree with you and I am in NO way encouraging young people to make the decision I did. I’m smart enough to realize that while it has worked out for me so far, not everyone is going to be so lucky.</p>

<p>I, for one, just want to thank TJEDLICKA for posting her update. You have a very positive outlook and things are going well. All I can say is GOOD LUCK to you and your new hubby!</p>

<p>I also thank TJEDLICKA for posting her update. I am so glad things turned out alright for you.</p>

<p>One thing you said that rang home to me was your anecdotal observation that potential employers are far more understanding of graduates who chose a less-expensive school nowadays than they were several years ago. I think this is a very astute observation. </p>

<p>Hiring managers are also parents who struggle with this choice in their own families. Years ago, many friends in this position, whether they themselves had done well as graduates of state schools or had graduated from HYPSM, urged us to look forward to sending our bright children to the best colleges they could get into. Lately, we have seen many who are Ivy graduates and who always assumed that their children would go Ivy or to a prestigious private now consider flagship state schools or whatever schools give generous merit aid as desirable schools for their own children, at least for undergrad, and seem more receptive to the idea of recruiting from these schools.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, it is hard to predict what will happen in ten years or so, if EFC decreases to state school levels or below for the upper middle class at large numbers of private schools, or more merit money becomes available at private schools. This is especially the case if students continue to earn college degrees in larger numbers than the economy can easily absorb.</p>

<p>My DD is at the same place in time as this student. Our share of the dept is about $100,000 and her’s is going to be about $30,000. </p>

<p>In our State, the $9,000 annual tuition when my DD started at her liberal arts college in fall 2007 is now $16,000. The state just announced another 14% hike in tuition for next fall. At my daughter’s college, tuition has hovered about $40,000 all four years. It has increased in incriments of 1.5 to 2.5% annually. </p>

<p>My daughter is graduating in four years. Most of her friends at the top public University in our State hope to graduate within 5 1/2 to 6 years. This is happening as the University keeps accepting more kids while raising tuition cuz the state is $$ multi-billions underwater budget-wise. For housing, the University is changing double rooms into triples and quads and still eliminates or does not replace professors; so classes continue to morph in size, opportunities to work with actual professors aren’t available til upper class years, classes are eliminated or not offered but once a year [with twice as many students in the major attempting to get in that “one” class that has the limited seats]. Classes are compressed to only allow students in the major to take them from the onset [so students who don’t declare as a freshman are very limited in the type of exploring they can accomplish concerning their area of study or options to get their fingers dirty learning about potential career interests.</p>

<p>The other question or area of follow-up I would suggest for the NYU student would center on how great is the NYU alumni in helping to provide the NYU student a paying job in the field of study that she majored in. A bulk of the grads’ connections [from the top public University in our state] is limited to finding an ability to get football tickets in the fall… A majority of its 2009 grads still haven’t found jobs. Beyond that, the students seem to be on their own looking for jobs after an undergrad degree. </p>

<p>I guess its critical, when weighing costs of each school, to know the employment rate of the grads [before graduation, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year out]. Similarly, how many businesses are clammoring for their grads? Sometimes one can’t simply put a singular price tag on one’s education when the critical doors to long term future success can’t even be opened. For that reason, I’m glad that US News publishes the percentage of students that give back financially to their college each year. The higher the percentage reflects appreciation for the quality of the experience [and hopefully the learning] as well as the financial capacity of the student to shell out extra $$ back to the school for others.</p>

<p>Not all community colleges in all states are the same. Tuition in our state for cc is $10,000 per year and is more or less a voc-tech school education or allows those with a GED be able to upgrade the same into an actual diploma. There after, they get to go to our University for 5 1/2 to 6 more years…</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>As which student? The student in the original story (this thread is several years old) had accrued almost $90K in debt of her own. Her parent had loans in addition to that I think. If you’re okay with repaying $100K in loans as a parent, and can afford to do so, that’s perfectly acceptable. Your D’s debt is only slightly higher than the average student’s and she may not have any problems with repaying it, unlike the original student who will very likely face significant challenges. Imo, it’s irresponsible to allow a 21 y.o. kid to get herself anywhere near $90K in the hole for an undergrad education. </p>

<p>Btw, I don’t know where you live, but many of the SUNY schools are actually pretty good and tuition is still under $5K a year instate…so this student had far more affordable choices. Personally, I think that going to a SUNY for an extra semester or two if necessary is preferable to drowning in debt for 20 years but, as always, to each his own.</p>