Yep. Medicine needs to adopt a shorter learning period. 3 year’s vs 4. Get more doctors in the market sooner and decrease the over all costs. Is there a way to shorten the specialty training also?
I know in some state’s PAs are given more liberties also.
When I say “need to” I mean that it is the the law in CA.
Many ophthalmology practices have optometrists doing exams, surgical pre-ops, post-ops, etc. While they are listed everywhere as an optometrist, and they often introduce themselves as an optometrist, patients still get confused. @eyemgh you worked in an ophthalmology practice. Were patients confused as to whether you were an OD or an MD?
It is currently at least 11 if you include undergraduate + medical school + residency.
Residency is the main limitation on the number of physicians who can be added to the pool of those practicing independently.
A number of med schools now have a primary care track that lasts 3 years. NYU (Long Island and NYC campuses), Penn State, Texas Tech, UC-Davis, Medical College Wisconsin, Mercer, Cooper-Rowan, OSU, MUSC, Meharry, VA Commonwealth, Hackensack-Meridian, Rutgers, U Tenn, Wayne State, U Arkansas, Wright State,U Mass, Miami, UWV, U OK,U AZ-Tuscon, Geisinger, Upstate.
3 year programs are also offered at LECOM, MSUCOM and KCUCOM.
Other med schools are seriously considering adding shortened 3 year programs. However, one of the rationales for 3 year programs is getting more doctors into medically underserved areas and, according to research, that simply isn’t happening.
(At NYU, for example, the majority of 3 year track students go into IM, then sub specialize once they finish their guaranteed IM residency.)
Obviously his training was not the same as a dermatologist, but in comparing the two there should be an apples to apples comparison.
Physicians do not begin their medical training in patient care until they get to medical school, so 4 years of med school + 3 years of residency = 7 years of medical training/patient care. Obviously there are also doctors who train beyond the 3-year residency.
Nurses typically do their prereqs in their first 2 years of college and spend their last 2 years (60 credits) taking nursing courses & clinicals. A nurse with a BSN and no additional work experience will typically take 4 years to complete a DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) after graduating from college. So, 2 years of undergrad nursing training + 4 years of grad school = 6 years of nursing training/patient care. Depending on the area of specialization, some DNPs do an additional year of internship for a total of 7 years. And nursing training these days is not about changing bed pans and cleaning patients.
While the training is different, the amount of training is not as different as it first appears. I would also note that a DNP is not a Doctor Nurse Practitioner. It is a Doctor of Nursing Practice, which is different.
I don’t get why the DNPs care so much. Sure, they have a doctorate but not in medicine. Why do they want to confuse their patients?
I see a NP but I know she isn’t a doctor as does my insurance company as they won’t approve her as my PCP and she must be supervised by a doctor. She doesn’t have a doctorate so isn’t called ‘dr’ My friend is a psychologist and uses Dr on everything, even her license plate ('DR. first name"). I’m not confused that she’s a medical doctor as she doesn’t wear a white coat or work in a medical setting, and I wouldn’t take medical advice from her, even prescription advice. If she wants a patient on a drug, she has to refer that patient to a medical doctor. Another mutual friend also has the same degree and I’ve never heard her call herself Dr.XXX (she works in a public school, so no need to impress 5 year olds).
My daughter calls her bosses ‘Dr.’ as they have PhD’s in history but everyone knows they aren’t medical doctors.
If a vet is giving medical advice to people and calling themselves ‘Doctor’ they should be stopped. Probably happens in rural areas more than we’d like it to, but California is making it clear that in a medical setting (people medical) it is confusing to call people Doctor who aren’t MDs or ODs or otherwise licensed.
Do you mean MDs and DOs?
OD - doctor of optometry
DO - doctor of osteopathic medicine
I’ve been approached by multiple times by flight attendants on long haul flights asking if I’m a medical doctor. Still waiting for this one though:
True story.
A friend of DH’s in grad school got married to lovely gentleman from Israel. Ari had his PhD and had trained both in Israel and Germany. As is the European custom, he always used his title when making reservations. He had booked a week at very nice B and B in Maine for their honeymoon as Dr and Mrs Z.
One morning while waiting for his wife to come downstairs, he was sitting on the porch of the house when an older woman also staying at the B and B comes up to him. She mentioned that she had overheard that he was a doctor when the couple was checking in. Dr. Z nodded. Yes, I am Dr. Z. The woman then proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes listing all her aches and pains and diagnoses. Dr. Z listens gravely, nodding occasionally at the woman and when she finally winds down, he looks at her quite seriously and says, “that’s all very interesting, but I am a Doctor of Mathematics.”
Funny thing is since the pandemic everyone calls me “Sir”.. “Thank you Sir”.
I don’t care if patients want to call me by my first name but “Sir “??? Young /Old.
Not sure why… lol 
I’m with those who object to the confusion. I don’t object to a nurse doing a strep swab (if that’s within the scope of practice) and I don’t object to an NP diagnosing bronchitis and prescribing a Z-pack (again, if that’s what he or she is licensed to do) but it’s the credential creep that bothers me. At my primary care doc’s office it isn’t a problem- it’s a huge practice, well defined “lanes” and you know who does what under whose supervision.
But there’s an urgent care clinic near me which seems very much out of whack (DNP’s whose name tags don’t match what their colleagues call them, which is “Doctor Brown”; nurses wearing what used to be considered the “doctor’s uniform”, etc.) And don’t get me started on folks like dieticians who have doctorates in early childhood education and the like who insist on being called “doctor”. You see them in a medical setting– it used to be safe to assume that “Doctor Brown” was a physician.
Speaking of name tags and patient care, my daughter (DPT, goes by her first name only) has a supervisor who will not call her the name she goes by. Let’s say her name is Christine, but has only been called Chris, doesn’t like the name Christine very much. First day her supervisor told her she would be calling her Christine, and made sure it said Christine on her name tag. Whenever my daughter got introduced to staff, my daughter would let them know she goes by Chris. Now it’s pretty much half and half Christine and Chris. She interacts with patients all day, and they call her Christine. Many she will see for a few months, so she’ll say you can call me Chris. She’s been there for a month (hospital). She has said things like “funny, it makes me feel like I’m in trouble when you call me Christine since no one calls me that”. I think she’s given up, but feels a little bullied.
What an obnoxious situation. Hugs to your D for being patient with an obviously obtuse supervisor…
I would agree. It is harassment. Some states have laws against that. Taxes, health insurance, etc. may need to be the legal name, but a name tag should be the preferred name.
Regarding DNP, I don’t really care what they call themselves as long as I know who I am seeing before my visit. I’m a Kaiser member and there is a PA who does a lot of the same day visits. He tends to over prescribe and misdiagnose. If they offer me an appointment with him, I’ll decline and ask for someone else.
I still get mixed up as to what the nursing titles mean. Is it NP>RN>LVN>CNA?
DNP = Doctor of Nursing Practice
NP = Nurse Practitioner (Can be a DPN, but can also be a MS level nurse in some specialties and some locales)
APRN = Advanced Practice Registered Nurse (Any registered nurse with a master or doctoral degree. Can be a DNP, CNW, CRNA, CNS, etc)
CNS = Clinical Nurse Specialist (CNS are often referred to as NPs when they practice within a specialty for which they’ve received advanced training, such as psychiatric NP or pediatric NP.)
CNW = Certified Nurse Midwife
CRNA = Certified Registered Nurse Anesthestist
BSRN = Bachelor of Science in Registered Nursing
RN = Registered Nurse (requires a 2 or 3 year associate’s degree plus passing a national licensing exam, NCLEX-RN)
LVN/LPN = Licensed Vocational Nurse/Licensed Practical Nurse (does not require an Associate’s degree, but does require a typically 12 month long training program, plus passing a national licensing exam, NCLEX-PN)
CNA = Certified Nursing Assistant (requires a 6-8 week certification class + passing a standardized state competency exam)
**
PA = Physician Assistant (Requires a BS degree plus a MS in Physician Assisting, plus passing a standardized national licensing exam.)
CAA = Certified Anesthesiologist Assistant (Requires a BS plus MS in Anesthesiology, plus passing a national standardized licensing exam.)
MA = Medical Assistant (High school diploma or GED. Some states require a 1-2 week long training class plus passing a state certification test.)
**
APRN/DNP has a scope of practice more or less equivalent to PA
CRNA has a scope of practice more or less equivalent to a CAA
***
REALLY LATE EDIT
And to make even more confusing, Missouri will now license APs
AP = Assistant Physician
An AP is US citizen graduate from an overseas medical school who, for whatever reason, was unable to obtain a US medical residency. They are basically equivalent to a PA or NP in scope of practice. They work solely in primary care and under the supervision of a fully licensed attending physician.
Arkansas will license GRPs
GRP = Graduate Registered Physician
A GRP is the same thing as an AP above. A US citizen who graduated from a foreign medical school who has NOT completed a US medical residency and whose scope of practice is limited to primary care under the supervision of a fully licensed attending physician. Equivalent to a NP or PA.
Although GRPs and APs hold medical degrees (MD or MBBS), they may NOT call themselves “Doctor”.
Veterinarians do not practice in a human hospital.
Thank you!
