In Shock - just ran two financial calculators!

Paying for College
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<p>Alabama offers great merit scholarships and my son seriously considered going there. In the end he picked Georgia Tech because he has the Zell Miller/hope scholarship and so money wise it was a wash plus now he’s only 45 minutes from home. However I have two other kids and middle son is not an engineering guy so I am really hoping that Alabama keeps the merit scholarships and that he qualifies for them because from what I’ve seen it’s a really nice college. </p>

<p>I’m not sure if other high schools in Georgia work this way but at our high school when the counselors talked to the parents and the kids about college they always promoted the Hope/Zell Miller scholarship and how it pays for tuition and that kids have to understand how expensive college is and that most parents can not afford out of state tuition. Then they would give examples of how certain kids were accepted to their “dream” school and cried when they realized that there was no way the parents could afford it. But then a year later the kids were happy at their in state school and everything turned out fine. We got the same sort of speech each year starting in 9th grade. Along with the advice to talk about how much the family could afford to spend on college. I think it really helped most of the kids and parents think about it before senior year.</p>

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<p>redpoint, thank you. Yes, I know NC doesn’t offer engineering. S was originally looking for selective LACs with strong math departments, but I’ve convinced him not to rule out engineering, especially if he can find a good (and affordable) LAC that offers it. </p>

<p>When looking at universities, it seems like it makes more sense to start in the engineering school and, if he finds it’s not for him, switch over to arts & sciences, rather than attempt to do the reverse. Part of what holds appeal me to me about 'Bama – and I could be way off base here – is what sounds like an opportunity to find a peer group in the honors college that crosses the various colleges within the university. S is not interested in attending a pure engineering or tech school. He’s too much of a liberal arts guy. </p>

<p>If (and I realize it’s a big “if”) 'Bama’s honors college does that effectively, the merit money being offered makes it among the most fantastic offers I’ve seen to date.</p>

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<p>@Lucie – check with me in a month or two. </p>

<p>DS wanted only a LAC, but he was very interested in Engineering. In the end, he took the Bama big merit vs a LAC. Price difference over the 4 years was at least $28,000. The generous APs at Bama is permitting him some freedom with his courses.</p>

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<p>MichiganGeorgia, it sounds like you are doubly fortunate, having the prepaid plan available to you (especially when it includes a school as highly ranked as Georgia Tech!) AND to have GCs at your children’s school who are honest with them about the realities of funding a college education.</p>

<p>Penn State, Pennsylvania’s flagship school (which receives less than 10 percent of its revenue from the state) is among the most expensive flagships in the nation for in-state students and also saddles more of them with Parent PLUS debt than any other school in the US. Their honors college (Schreyer) is also extremely difficult to gain admission to. Pitt, whose honors college is supposed to be excellent and not as difficult to get into, is also very expensive for in-state students. Unfortunately, the best “state schools” in PA are only minimally funded by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, thus their high price-tags. (The schools that are run by the state, and are more affordable, are all former teachers colleges. While fine schools, I’m sure, they aren’t really comparable to the best of the nation’s state flagships.)</p>

<p>Longhaul, thank you–I’ve been following your “journey” and am anxiously awaiting to hear how it all turns out!</p>

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<p>I am not surprised at all that an Ivy-stat applicant would qualify for significant merit aid at UA. Not sure where you got that.
What I was referring to is the consideration of the two (types of) schools.
I doubt there is very much overlap between HYP and UA applicants. I could be wrong. But … I don’t think so.</p>

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<p>Agent, there are plenty of parents here who paid full freight and are thrilled with the result. But we’ve been cowed into silence by the accusations that we are prestige w$%^'s and elitists who are buying the overpriced and under-delivered goods of an obsolete athletic league and their equivalent.</p>

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<p>UA is talked about here on CC a lot mainly because of the very attributes you cited.
[Note: No intention of trying to turn this into a UA bashing session.]</p>

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<p>My S will soon be beginning his 2nd year at Bama. With the award from the engineering department, Bama wound up being about $10-12,000/year less than staying IS and attending flagship.</p>

<p>His HS graduating class had…73 students.</p>

<p>Going from a small school to a big school definitely depends on the student. I really wouldn’t count on the honors college to provide a small college feel - sure there are small honors classes, but about 20-25% of Bama’s incoming student’s are in honor’s so you won’t be with the same group of students in these courses. The honor’s college hosts lots of activities, but whether or not students attend is their choice and once again with well over 10,000 honors students on campus it won’t be the same students at all the activities. </p>

<p>But my son didn’t have much trouble adjusting. I told him going to a large school is much like the difference in living in a small town or a city. Sure if you’re in a city there are A LOT more people - you don’t run into your neighbors EVERY time you go to the grocery store, BUT you do tend to interact with the same people all the time giving it a smaller feel. In a city you see the people in your neighborhood, you see the people you work with, you see the people you socialize with or participate in activities with. Sure there are A LOT of other people around, but you don’t interact with them often. At a big school, you see the people in your dorm, you see the people in your classes, you see the people that are in clubs or activities you join. Sure there are a lot of other people walking around, but that core group of people you interact with is going to be the same most of the time.</p>

<p>When I was on a weekend visit to see my son we walked to the bookstore on campus. En route he said “hi” to at least a half dozen people he knew. Even with near 30,000 students on campus, it’s amazing how ‘small’ it can feel.</p>

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<p>^ By the way, the University of Alabama is also notorious for giving poor need-based aid. According to its 2012-13 Common Data Set, Alabama met full need for only 11% of the undergrads it determined to have need, and on average met only 51.5% of need. It’s their money and they can do with as they please, I suppose, but I would have to question the priorities of a taxpayer-supported public university that severely “gaps” in-state students with need, while at the same time handing out free rides to high-stats OOS students. What the heck?</p>

<p>And I don’t know, having never been there, but might that not create a strange dynamic on campus? Like a boatload of resentment?</p>

<p>For its part, what does 'Bama get for it? It still comes in as the 32nd-best public university in the U.S. News rankings, its 75th percentile SAT/ACT scores are still fairly unimpressive, and it has few if any academic programs it can point to as stellar (#87 undergrad business, #96 undergrad engineering; purely academic disciplines don’t have undergrad rankings but if you take grad program rankings as a proxy for faculty quality, Alabama has none in the top 50 and precious few in the top 100).</p>

<p>I can understand the appeal 'Bama’s merit aid holds for some CC parents: why pay for something that you can get for free? On the other hand, for many parents of high-stats kids there’s going to be a trade-off in quality that some will not want to make. Sure, if you can get the same product for free, why pay for it; but if you think you can get a better product and can afford to pay for it, that might be the better bargain. YMMV.</p>

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<p>Blossom, if I could afford to write a check to send my kid to an Ivy or top 50 LAC, I wouldn’t hesitate for one second. In fact, I’d be thrilled to. And I wouldn’t resent the kids getting financial aid either, because I truly believe they add something to the college that is as important as the ability to pay full freight. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to do that. For us it’s about value, up to a point. If the best school for him ends up costing more than a free ride somewhere else, and we can afford to, we’ll pay for it. If on the other hand, a school like UA ends up being the best value, we’ll encourage him to go with that. </p>

<p>bclintock, while I don’t disagree with your issues about UA, they’re free to set their own policies. I can’t afford to turn down a generous offer solely “on principle.” All I can do is make a generous gift to their Annual Fund when the time comes and hope they use some of that money towards some in-state kids.</p>

<p>jrcsmom, thanks for sharing your son’s experience. That’s very helpful!</p>

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<p>Bclintonk,</p>

<p>I agree with a lot of what you said.</p>

<p>But to clarify on one thing …</p>

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<p>This is an extremely often-used phrase but is very inaccurate and misleading.</p>

<p>UA’s annual budget is around $ 700 to 800 million. Only about 16% of that money comes from state tax-supported revenue. And it is dwindling even less every year. (Just as in other states.)</p>

<p>State universities have various sources of funding (tuition and other charges and fees, hospital revenues, etc.). Taxes, at many schools, are a tiny amount.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>What public schools offer significant need-based aid? Most of the need-based aid awarded to high need students come through the federal government or through state grants. Sure there are some privates with large endowments that can offer significant need based aid, including the schools that meet 100% of need, but most publics leave a gap even for IS students.</p>

<p>Sure if your EFC is $0, you’ll get a Pell grant, and whatever state aid your state hands out, but most publics will only offer a LITTLE if anything in addition to that whether you are an in-state or out-of-state student.</p>

<p>I could debate the numbers such as it’s the 32nd best public out of… I found over 600 publics in 1999, I couldn’t find a more recent number quickly. 32 out of 600 doesn’t seem too bad. 87th in business…once again out of how many? Top 25 are AWESOME schools. Top 50 are EXTREMELY GOOD. Top 100 are very high quality.</p>

<p>But I won’t spend too much time debating that, what I’ll say is I’m definitely getting my money’s worth on my son’s tutition bill. Oh yeah, that’s not hard when I don’t owe ANYTHING. He’s not only going to finish an engineering degree with honors in 4 years, but pair it with a Spanish minor. He was on the Dean’s list his first semester with a 4.0 GPA. He got to travel to Ecuador with a honor’s class. He goes to classes in a litterally brand new $250,000,000 building with new labs. Sure at any big school there are good profs and bad profs, so classes that you learn a lot and classes you don’t learn as much, but at Bama even in the struggling economy they are hiring profs and that means that right now they can pick and choose to get their ‘pick of the litter’. To top it off my S was able to get an internship for this summer after his freshman year. He could have stayed in state and paid more than $40,000 more (over 4 years) to go to a higher ranked school, but what value would he have gotten for that? Sure there’s the notion that the classes perhaps would be more rigorous (of course completely dependent on who is doing the teaching), but I’d argue that he’s learned a lot more on a service trip to Ecuador and working in his field for the summer. Going to a higher ranked school means more job opportunities? I’d argue that getting an internship after freshman year which has allowed him to find references and start networking is just as valuable. Oh, and this semester when the bill is due, we’re getting a check FROM the school. Ya gotta love CASHING those tutition checks.</p>

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<p>DS just finished first year at Alabama. Actually he’s almost ready to leave for second year, but that’s too depressing to consider. Anyway, he was admitted to Johns Hopkins, Lehigh IBE (their most exclusive major), and Georgia Tech. He’s obviously a high stats kid. He would have been full pay at each, and he could have gone to any without loans. He was smart enough to get into those schools, smart enough to earn a huge scholarship from Bama, and smart enough to take them up on it. The money we would have spent can be used for grad school or other needs. After touring Bama and being blown away, his attitude was what do I have to lose? If I hate it, I can transfer.</p>

<p>He entered Bama with sophomore standing thanks to their generous AP credits. He lived in an honors super-suite, a 4BR 2BA unit with private bedrooms that was nicer than his first apartment will be. The AP credits allowed him to take a lighter course load, a big help for a first-year engineering student far from home. He finished the year with a perfect 4.0. He also played on the UA men’s volleyball team, traveling to tournaments around the South and to nationals in Dallas. Those road trips with teammates/friends were some of the best times. </p>

<p>He has made friends of different majors, different states, and different personalities. Like more than half the student body, he is not Greek. Within days of arriving, he formed a fantasy football league with newly-made friends. He has never felt like an outsider, despite being a New Yorker in Alabama.</p>

<p>Speaking of football, what can I say. He is a big sports fan, though never paid much attention to college football. NY is a pro town. Still, he jumped right on the bandwagon. As an honors student, he had front row seats to every home game of a national championship season. He then moved on to basketball, sitting front row courtside for every game. You don’t need to be a sports fan to like the atmosphere at Bama (everyone gets into the spirit, even if you hate the sport), but if you do like sports, it’s amazing.</p>

<p>So far he loves his choice, has no regrets. Ultimately the validation of his choice will come at job time. I have a hard time believing an engineering major with a stellar GPA and winning personality will not be in high demand. The high stats kids have every opportunity to stand out from the crowd.</p>

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<p>In some ways rankings are good and granted DS’s college is ranked pretty well. However my husband and I graduated from a college that is not ranked in the top 100 and if one of my sons was going into teaching. I would not hesitate to send him there. I think there is a college for every student and rankings don’t tell the whole story.</p>

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<p>University of Washington</p>

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<p>Is Bama’s scholarship only for engineering students? What about physics?</p>

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<p>The free tuition at UA is for all majors. Engineering has an additional one on top of that. Not sure about Physics.</p>

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<p>We had the same experience–in fact the aid our student got is different than the NPC because the IM is not nearly counting #s like the IRS :rolleyes:
and we are self employed.</p>

<p>Just got K1s aid #s and its waaaay down from yr 1 and yr 2…go figure.</p>

<p>Next year we will have 2 in college. </p>

<p>sigh</p>

<p>Depending on the state flagship–no every kid can get in and with OOS applicants paying full boat, even the plan of trying to state instate doesn’t always fly</p>

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<p>Fog: what is IM?</p>

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<p>My own alma mater isn’t even ranked on the national rankings. It’s a regional, ranked in the teens, unfamiliar to most people. If you went by rankings, totally unimpressive. My group of friends, now in our 40’s are:</p>

<p>VP of tax of Fortune 500 company
VP of major Wall Street firm
VP of sales for major office furniture manufacturer
Partner in midsize law firm
Principal of large insurance wholesaler
President of payroll services firm
VP of sales for aircraft manufacturer
President/COO of aerospace parts distributor
VP of cargo for major airline</p>

<p>The list goes on. All of us had great jobs coming out of college, as do the school’s recent grads. Rankings aren’t everything.</p>