In your opinion, what are the best universities in the eastern United States?

College Search & Lists
21

“UNSWR ranks Dartmouth’s medical school #37 (tied) for research and #29 for primary care.”

  • When University of Colorado and Ohio State rank ahead of you in the med school rankings that's really sad. That's EXTREMELY low for an "Ivy" league school.

Let’s look at some other rankings for a “top” school such as Dartmouth. One of our most “elite” universities.

Law… No ranking/Below 100 … Probably doesn’t have a law school.
Economics… No rankings/Below 100 …doesn’t have a PhD program in economics.
Math…52nd…congratulations
Physics…70th…congratulations
Biology…38th…congratulations
Computer Science…40th …congratulations
Chemistry…71st…congratulations

THAT is an “IVY” league school?? THAT is a research university?? It’s Dartmouth COLLEGE not Dartmouth UNIVERSITY. It’s an undergrad college not a research university.

22

Ah, moving the goalposts. Should have foreseen as much.

23

How restrictive do we want to be in identifying “the best”? Are we talking about the top 10? The top 50? Are we referring to the schools, among those classified as “universities”, that have the best undergraduate programs? Or, are we referring to the 10/20/50/N schools that have the greatest breadth/depth of programs at all levels?

It is not unreasonable to claim that Dartmouth is more limited than other Ivy League schools in its graduate program offerings. However, this community (College Confidential) usually focuses on undergraduate education. So when a poster asks, “What are the best universities in the eastern United States?”, it is reasonable to assume that the intent is to identify “universities”* with the best undergraduate programs.

*Whether Dartmouth is a “college” or a “university” is a matter of definition.
US News and Carnegie do classify it as a university.

The following page provides one standards-based list, with locations, of US “research universities”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

24

“it is reasonable to assume that that the intent is to identify universities with the best undergraduate programs” (22)

Since the OP is a high school sophomore, it might also be reasonable to infer that the OP is interested in the best undergraduate programs in general, and that the usage of “university” may be incidental to the inquiry.

25

BTW I couldn’t give a rats behind what USNews thinks. USNews has Michigan/UNC/NYU/UCLA ranked behind Wake Forest/Emory/Dartmouth/Georgetown and I know for a fact those 4 school are leaps (I’ll repeat it again LEAPS) ahead as academic research institutions. If anything they should rank behind top 10 top 15 schools. Maybe for undergrad there on par which other, but putting Michigan 29th is utter proof USNews is clueless.FYI I didn’t go to Michigan but recognize what a top research university it is and the amazing faculty they have, compared to a 2nd-3rd tier faculty at Dartmouth. In the academic world getting an assistant professorship at Michigan is MUCH harder than getting one at Dartmouth.

Also I didn’t move the goal line. The goal line was low enough to see Dartmouth is not as “elite” as people perceived it. When Ohio State is outranking many of your major departments, we need to reassess our definition of “elite” is and what a “top research” university looks like.

26

Dartmouth does not have 2nd-3rd tier faculty. You really do not know of what you speak.
The VOLUME of research is small compared to other research universities because it just has much smaller departments… it is more undergraduate focused after all. But the quality of research is strong.

I agree that USNews rankings are mostly garbage… but their ranking of National Universities is not at all about research at the graduate level… it is strictly a ranking of UNDERGRADUATE programs… their metrics do not include any research or grad school inputs/outputs. I personally think the choices USNews makes for metrics are capricious, arbitrary, and not grounded in any science or statistical analysis… but that is a different issue than dinging the ratings for not ranking research quality and output when that is not at all the focus of the list.

I agree that at the graduate PhD level and research output level, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, Colorado, Illinois, Wisconsin, Washington, Georgia Tech, and a number of others are absolute powerhouses.

But that does NOT necessarily or always translate to a quality undergraduate experience. It may or may not, but it certainly is not an obvious automatic yes.

(I also find it hilarious that further up, you ding Dartmouth for not having a top 100 Law school when they DO NOT HAVE a law school… by your logic, Princeton must be a third-tier institution because it doesn’t have a medical, law, or business school… and oh, all those elite liberal arts colleges… clearly inferior.)

All that said, I personally think that any of the top 50-ish institutions are incredibly strong and hyper-focus on discerning tiny differences in arbitrary rankings is silly.

27

USNWR undergaduate rankings measure factors such as peer assessment, retention rate and student SAT scores. They do not measure research, nor do they claim to. In any event, the category in which many larger schools are included is “National Universities.” Some of these schools will emphasize undergraduate research more than others, but graduate department rankings are a particularly poor tool for determining which ones.

Beyond that, @jamesgorman, you seem to be using USNWR graduate department rankings to invalidate USNWR undergraduate rankings. This isn’t so much moving the goalposts, but distorting them beyond recognition.

28

“also find it hilarious that further up, you ding Dartmouth for not having a top 100 Law school when they DO NOT HAVE a law school”

  • I mentioned in my post EITHER they don't have one or it ranks below 100. Either..Or

“Beyond that, @jamesgorman, you seem to be using USNWR graduate department rankings to invalidate USNWR undergraduate rankings. This isn’t so much moving the goalposts, but distorting them beyond recognition”

USNWR does not come out and say explicitly “This is an undergraduate ranking” it calls it a “National Ranking” - Hogwash utter hogwash. Whether it says it in the footprint is irrelevant because it when its marketed, sold and packaged it’s perceived as a “National” ranking.

Do you know what logical consistency is?? How do you place a university in the top 10-20 such as Darmouth when 70% of its departmental rankings rank below 50. It’s called “CONSISTENCY”. I am not mixing anything up. I am only asking for a consistent product.

Every year when given a choice between a top school such as Michigan and Dartmouth, 90% of the kids choose Dart-mouth. Why? Because of the false/incorrect perception that are perpetuated by USNews and people on this forum. Michigan:Dartmouth :: Filet Minion:McDonald’s Burger. I am sorry but that’s the reality.

Darmouth’s faculty is 2nd/3rd tier. Michigan PhD’s place at Dartmouth. Dartmouth PhD’s (if any) don’t place at Michigan. Get your facts!

I am sorry but Dartmouth shouldn’t be an ivy league school. It’s barely skirting top 50.

I can make a similar arguments for other schools. But Dartmouth is the most recognizable of the pack.

29

US News publishes many different rankings.
It covers “national universities” and “national LACs” in its “Best Colleges” rankings. It also ranks individual graduate programs in fields such as economics, math, physics, biology, CS, and chemistry. It appears those are exactly the rankings jamesgorman cited in post #20.

Here are the ranking criteria and weights for the “Best Colleges” undergraduate rankings:
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/ranking-criteria-and-weights
Notice the emphasis on undergraduate academic reputation.

If you don’t like the overall USNWR ranking results, you can look at the individual sub-factors (admission rates, class sizes, graduation rates, etc.) Or, you can look at a completely different undergraduate ranking. However,some of those rankings (using rather different criteria from USNWR’s) also give Dartmouth a pretty high ranking.
Examples:
Parchment (“national universities” only): Dartmouth 12th, UCLA 15th, Michigan 24th, Georgetown 25th

Forbes (all colleges): Dartmouth 14th, Georgetown 23rd, Michigan 41st , UCLA 45th

Kiplinger’s (all colleges): Dartmouth 23rd, Georgetown 44th, UCLA 75th, Michigan 83rd
(Again, these are undergraduate program rankings.)

If you want to emphasize overall quality of research activities at all levels, consider some of the international rankings (such as QS World) or the “research” component of the Washington Monthly ranking.
The latter ranks Dartmouth a rather respectable 37th (just behind WUSTL and ahead of Case Western).
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2015/national-universities-research.php

30

Kiplinger’s (all colleges): Dartmouth 23rd, Georgetown 44th, UCLA 75th, Michigan 83rd

These rankings are a joke.

Michigan …UCLA…Dartmouth

By the way. Michigan has more wall street grads than Dartmouth. And their endowment is 2x as big.

No matter how you slice/dice the data. Any of the top public’s (Berkeley/Michigan/UCLA/UNC-CH/Wiscon, [UVA excluded/not strong in research]) are better research institutions than Dartmouth.
Look at some of the schools with the highest NIH funding:

1 JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY 567,666,828
2 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN FRANCISCO 557,140,709
3 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN 449,440,199
4 UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA 448,051,440
5 UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH AT PITTSBURGH 425,603,684
6 UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON 422,917,954
7 STANFORD UNIVERSITY 421,175,041
8 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO 387,576,202
9 WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY 377,643,762
10 UNIV OF NORTH CAROLINA CHAPEL HILL 375,543,736
11 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES 370,466,843
12 YALE UNIVERSITY 352,274,351
13 MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL 348,624,088
14 DUKE UNIVERSITY 333,942,671
15 BRIGHAM AND WOMEN’S HOSPITAL 332,810,746
16 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES 330,752,289
17 VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY 298,823,842
18 EMORY UNIVERSITY 287,920,427
19 UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON 268,460,009
20 ICAHN SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AT MOUNT SINAI 257,359,170
21 UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA 238,932,303
22 FRED HUTCHINSON CANCER RESEARCH CENTER 227,271,793
23 NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY AT CHICAGO 220,533,145
24 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM 219,386,036
25 BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE 208,526,734
26 MAYO CLINIC ROCHESTER 206,753,861
27 UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO DENVER 195,210,766
28 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT DAVIS 194,428,178
29 OREGON HEALTH & SCIENCE UNIVERSITY 192,546,264
30 UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA 187,895,192

Not impressed with Dartmouth. I am sorry. Not a research university.

31

This is just an axe-grinding derail. To the OP: I’m sorry your perfectly fine thread has devolved into such a stinker.

To @jamesgorman - you’re disrupting a thread. Your opinions aren’t at stake here. Move on.

32

So you don’t like Dartmouth. So what? Don’t go there, problem solved.

33

I have no problem with Dartmouth! Honestly! Overall its a good school. Better than 99% of the schools out there and I would certainly pick it over them if presented that choice. I don’t want you guys to get the wrong impression that I am partial against Dartmouth. Dartmouth is a great undergrad college! Strong alumni base that is very generous and helpful to graduating students with jobs and employment. Great school!
However!! I just object to anyone calling it a “Research University”

  • I swear I almost puked as I typed that out.

Dartmouth…Research

(I need a trash bucket, I can’t hold it)

I cringe when I see a school such as Michigan (Again, I am not a Michigan grad! I swear) outranked by a college not even 1/10 of 1/10 the institution Michigan is. That is blasphemous and a crime and when I see the hogwash that USNews puts out here perpetuated on this forum. You have to call it out. I am sorry! I hope some Michigan grads such as Alexandre can come here to my defense and vouch that it makes absolutely no sense for an institution such as Dartmouth to be rank 12th while Michigan ranks 29th! I can name 7 other schools that unequivocally should rank ahead of Dartmouth, Michigan is just a clear example.

34

BTW Marvin. The OP’s question was answered within the first response. Look back at Warblesrule response. Probably the best the response and completely answered OP’s question.

All this stuff is just “after-hour” fluff. So relax. Have some turkey!

35

how did this thread devolve so quickly? poor op

36

The past 2.5 pages illustrate some of the difficulties in addressing the OP’s question.
We can’t even agree on exactly what is a “university”, let alone which are the “best”!

What is it, then?

The Carnegie Commission on Higher Education has developed a framework for classifying colleges.
(http://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/methodology/index.php)
In its “Basic” classification system, Dartmouth College is classified as a “research university”.
That isn’t a normative judgment. It results from a cold-blooded walk through a flowchart.
http://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/downloads/2010classifications_logic.pdf

Still, it might make more sense to assign Dartmouth to the USNWR “National LAC” list. The National LACs include Wesleyan University. In several respects, Dartmouth is more similar to Wesleyan than it is to Michigan or UCLA, or to the 7 other Ivies. While we’re at it we could quibble about the classifications of many other schools. Or, just stick to the Carnegie classes until someone comes up with a better framework.

It absolutely does matter how we “slice/dice the data” in ranking colleges. If we focus only on research production, yes, most of the top publics would come out higher than Dartmouth. But that isn’t the primary focus of most undergraduate college rankings of universities and LACs. Forbes, Parchment, Kiplinger’s, and stateuniversity.com all rank Dartmouth higher than Michigan or UCLA. Washington Monthly, which does place more emphasis on research (as well as social mobility and “service”), ranks Dartmouth lower.

37

*The thread devolved quickly for several reasons, but certainly a huge one is that the OP was far too vague. They didn’t indicate if they meant undergrad only or in all aspects, including grad and professional schools. Now my bias against rankings and the whole concept of a “best” school, no matter how you slice the above, is well known by many. But in this case there is far too little specificity in the first post to have a meaningful discussion, as some (one in particular) have focused heavily on research rankings which might mean nothing to the OP. So I am closing this, and if the OP wants to be far more specific in a new thread, please do so.

On another note, please be aware @jamesgorman that repeated posts saying the same thing over and over are considered a form of spam, especially when they seem to be biased against a particular school, your protest to the contrary notwithstanding. Not a formal warning, just letting you know you seemed to be getting close to the line.*