<p>Sabaray, where exactly are you from if you don’t mind me asking?</p>
<p>Sorry, CIA, but we’ll just keep it at VA. Close enough to read the DNR.</p>
<p>Some European countries deny health care and public education to illegal immigrants (sorry, can’t remember which countries). In spite of some policies, I think this country is, in some areas (mostly urban), more humane and realistic.</p>
<p>Sabaray, in that case, I would hope that something could be worked out since there was no intent of deception there, but error in paperwork.</p>
<p>I’m a student from El Salvador currently studying at a top LAC. I’ve lived my entire life in El Salvador and I am a legal international student at my college. I just want to provide some perspective on this issue.
Galoisien:
Can you imagine being an independent female student gifted in math and biology and suddenly returning to a country where evolution would be seen as heresy and girls are just seen as babymakers and housekeepers?</p>
<p>Evolution is not seen as heresy. It is a quiet common, partially accepted idea that has some opposition from some extreme religious institutions. Although I don’t know if the Ministry of Education teaches evolution at public schools, I know that most privates do teach it. In any case it is a respected argument and a person won’t be called a “heretic” for not believing in evolution. While certainly it is a society where machismo is prevalent, women are free to work and live as they wish. Granted, there might be some social pressure or it may be generally harder for women to fill many traditional male roles but it isn’t impossible. From what I’ve heard the Salvadoran Police has one of the highest percentage of females in the force in the Americas. There are female doctors, female lawyers, female college professors, female executives, etc. It is generally harder for females to get into male-dominated careers if the women are from rural areas of the country though. </p>
<p>I saw your later post about correlating development with female rights though. I read Three Cups of Tea by Greg Mortenson and it illustrates some of the benefits of the girl effect on developing nations. </p>
<p>*Salvadorans can’t participate in the green card lottery since there are thousands of Salvadorans already living in the US illegally. </p>
<p>Yes, El Salvador has universities where they train doctors, lawyers, businessmen, among many other careers. There are all quality leveals at universities, from pseudo-universities, like some American community colleges, to fine universities with some professors holding American Ph.D from top American universities (some I know include Stanford, UCLA, William & Mary). This girl isn’t going to “hell”. She is going to a country where she can find opportunities if she actively seeks them. Granted, there may be more or better opportunities in the US but if she really tries she can be successful. The harder part is coming back to a country where she’ll probably make ten times less money than in the US, and being separated from a culture and family she probably identified perfectly now. </p>
<p>Why am I defending the Salvadoran educational opportunities although I’m studying in the US ? Generally better education, American college life (all universities here are all commuter schools), exploring the world (same reason American college kids study abroad), better opportunities. I am truly lucky and blessed to receive some of the opportunities some people, like this girl, don’t receive. It is unfortunate this bright girl was deported back to El Salvador, even though she is probably as prepared for college as her American peers. Laws are laws though. I’m not saying it was right or wrong to deport her; in fact I don’t really have a solid opinion on immigration.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what I want to do after I graduate from college, it could be volunteering in a Peace Corps-like program, working in El Salvador, working in the US legally, doing a master’s probably at another American university, or working in another country. If everything goes to plan I’ll graduate with a college degree, and probably be more prepared than 84% of the American work force (Henry). Yet, my employment opportunities will be limited due to immigration laws. Is this fair? I don’t know but the laws are the laws.</p>
<p>Henry, Tamara.
[USATODAY.com</a> - Report: Greater percentage of Americans educated](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm#more]USATODAY.com”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm#more)</p>
<p>Oh and I forgot to post this:
<a href=“http://www.scu.edu/casa/[/url]”>http://www.scu.edu/casa/</a></p>
<p>Just to provide some further insight into the Salvadoran educational system here is a link to the Santa Clara University study abroad program at a local university in El Salvador</p>
<p>She seems like a great human being, but we are a nation of laws. I welcome all legal immigrants, and while I have a big heart for illegal immigrants, laws exist for very good reasons.</p>
<p>Her home country will benefit from her character and intelligence.</p>
<p>“Mouse, the EU limits membership very carefully, and does not admit countries that do not fit in economically. Most European countries limit illegal immigration much more effectively than we do.”</p>
<p>That’s very debatable. In 2004, ten Eastern European countries entered the EU, and those were certainly not in the economic league of somewhere like Germany. (I’m not saying they shouldn’t have been admitted - the more the merrier IMO - but those countries certainly did not ‘fit in economically’). </p>
<p>I also don’t think we (the UK) do a great job in limiting illegal immigration. I mean sure, we sometimes catch people, but we also don’t deport them any time soon.</p>
<p>Someone further up the thread (pugmadkate?) noted that there are tensions between immigrants and settled communities in EU countries. This is so very true in the UK at least, and I think it is largely to do with the fact that we have identity issues. In the US, the impression I get is that it’s easy to balance different parts of your identity - you can be Chinese-American, African-American, Italian-American… but you are still American. In the UK, that kind of thinking just doesn’t exist. You are British, or you are Other. To self-define as, say, Pakistani-British, is to have your loyalty to the UK suspected. I so envy the US in this respect - it seems Americans are much freer to express multiple identities. </p>
<p>Given that 2 members of a racist political party have just been voted by the UK into the European parliament, I think this issue of viewing people as ‘the Other’ is just going to intensify.</p>
<p>laylah,</p>
<p>I would submit that any admitted countries to the EU are far more similiar to the UK and Germany than Mexico is to the US. Is health care provided to illegal aliens in the UK? Eduction?</p>
<p>Sabray – the girl in Georgia who came here at 2 came in with a good attempt at being legal, albeit paperwork apparently screwed up. The one in the first article knew she was coming here illegally – how could she not, with the trip with lying,</p>
<p>Kayf, she was 12 years old. She did what her parents told her to do. What should she have done? Refused? Who knows what else was going on that she came to live with her parents. I don’t think you can hold a 12 year old to the same standard that you can hold an adult to. How do we know this young woman’s situation isn’t similar to the Georgian girl’s–with the difference being the Georgian family has more resources? I think both of these stories have ridiculous results. Surely there are more individuals deserving of deportation than these.</p>
<p>Sabra – I do not blame the HS student – but I do not think the two situations are anywhere near comparable, and have every hope that the second one’s legal matters can be straightened out. I do not think that people who come here illegally should go to the head of the line. What is the difference between that and rewarding kids who push their way to the front? You just encourage more to do it.</p>
<p>“Is health care provided to illegal aliens in the UK? Eduction?”</p>
<p>AFAIK, yes. Although educational provision is patchy - there aren’t the resources to provide ESL classes to everyone, and obviously if you don’t speak English you aren’t going to get much out of education in the UK. I don’t think the EU has a unified policy on health care or educational provision for illegal immigrants. </p>
<p>I have no doubt that Mexico and the US are worlds apart. So perhaps it’s just that the countries in the EU are half a world apart instead 
Dissimilar enough to notice it, but maybe not so dissimilar that it matters much.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. And maybe, if some of the more deserving (like ms-13 gang member/murderer Edwin Ramos) actually get deported, people might feel more comfortable blurring the hard line.</p>
<p>I don’t think people who come here illegally should go to the head of the line either. I just think that sometimes there are human circumstances that should be considered rather than the inevitable march of deportation which seems to be the only option being used in either of these two cases, regardless of how comparable they are or not. The HS student obeyed her parents. They’re the ones who broke the law.</p>
<p>Thanks, blankmind. I was starting to feel like the lone voice in the wilderness.</p>
<p>
There are ALWAYS human circumstances, most of which would break our hearts. But how do you decide which heart-rending situation is more deserving than the next? The sad answer is that you don’t. You simply have to apply the rules as even-handedly as humanly possible.</p>
<p>I wish that the immigration officials who have “sympathy” for the Polish girl’s plight would exhibit the same compassion for the Salvadorian student. In my mind, it’s not about whether someone is smart or not, but wheter a minor child of legal residents/citizens should be granted residency. Since the student had to translate for her mother, my guess is that the family’s understanding of immigration law came not from a lawyer but from the Latino community. Why else would they risk everything by applying for legal status when their daughter was sixteen? Why else would they not have petitioned for her to join them when she was twelve? (Of course, maybe they did and were denied.) I doubt they got sound legal advice before making the decision they did.</p>
<p>Momwaiting – this is part of the problem, we don’t know why the HS girl came here illegally – I still suspect part of it may be that mom WASNT legal when girl came. Until we know that – this is all speculation. I think if you rephrase question, should minor child, here illegally for years, at the time she came, mom was illegal, be able to obtain citizenship, you get a different salnt. </p>
<p>I think a lot of people, including me, agree with Blankmind, that a rationale immigration policy would allow the HS girl to stay, but many others would be gone. But until the US first agrees to enforce immigration laws, I am not in favor of change. Obama’s plan of looking only to enforce laws against employers is useless. How would we avoid all the illegal maids, nannies and yard workers. The latest in Westchester was a DWI which resulted in the death of a mother and 7 year old when an illegal who worked at one of the horse farms drove his employers car and ran them down. My god, we dont even need horse farms – these arent working farms – they are so the elite can go jumping and hunting. Why do I have to pay for the health care and education needs that they and their children create? The uber rich should pay enough so legal residents will take these jobs.</p>
<p>sabaray, let me clarify my position, as I don’t think I actually agree with you. My post was more to point out that when truly dangerous children, like Ramos, are sheltered by well-meaning sanctuary laws, people are naturally going to start questioning the validity of the “human circumstances” of illegal immigrants.</p>
<p>The law is the law, imperfect or not, and I think the Maine girl should get deported (not the Georgia girl, cause that’s just a paperwork error). I am of the mind that thanks to people like Mr. ms-13/triple murderer Edwin Ramos, people are becoming more hardened to the “human circumstances” of illegal immigrants. I know that is happening to me. The stupidity (my opinion) of S.F"s sanctuary law will result in good people like the girl from Maine being deported.</p>
<p>If I have to choose between letting everyone stay, which allows Ramos and his ilk to stay and terrorize neighborhoods, murdering innocent people, versus deporting all, including the honor student, all around nice girl from Maine, I have to side with the latter.</p>
<p>blankmind, we’re closer than you might think. But I respect your desire to separate yourself from my argument for the sake of argument. </p>
<p>Continue on. I’ll be checking out.</p>