I agree, total no brainer. However, some people do feel that they are entitled to call base as soon as they enter the airplane, and no matter the situation, they aren’t giving up that seat. There are some very aggressive people out there, and this woman sounded like she had been intimidated, though she was completely in the right. I wish I had been sitting near her to help out (though they probably would have thrown me off the airplane for crew interference).
I always keep my ticket handy, so if there is any dispute, someone sitting in my seat who is being a jerk, I can whip it out as proof. I can’t see how, if someone said, “Here are two tickets for the seats. These are our purchased seats,” that the flight attendant or ticket agent can ignore that. Whether the flight is full or not, the standby passenger is just out of luck, it’s her purchased seats. And this one, unlike most of the other fiascos, is on United. Most of the other events have been on their contractors, not mainline United. It’s a problem when you put your name on the side of an airplane and on people’s tickets, when the contractor messes up, it’s credited to your company.
I agree the standby passenger should have had to leave the plane, and if it had been me I would have pushed harder to not give up my child’s seat. I’ve been in both situations - someone was in my seat when I got there, or someone arrived after I was seated with the same seat number. It happens, and usually is dealt with calmly.
With the recent incidents on planes, I can see how both the mom and the cabin crew were hesitant to provoke confrontations, and if the standby passenger decided to insist on being seated the person with the stronger will was going to win.
Not that the pax count should have been off or the standby passenger should have been let on, but once that mistake had been made I can understand people being willing to walk on eggshells to settle it down, and the rest could fight it out with United after the flight, which is what happened.
Of all the things I’m likely to get righteously indignant about, this ranks pretty low. I’m not sure how many 2 and 3 year olds sit on laps because the parents lied about their age to avoid paying for tickets, but my guess is “a lot.”
@busdriver11 can you confirm or deny whether it is against regulation to allow a child of this age (size?) to ride on a parent’s lap? Would this be something that United (or the pilot? or someone?) could get in real trouble for?
romani, since I don’t work for United, I can’t speak for their specific company. In fact, I rarely will even fly on United because of how I was treated on a number of flights years ago, and things apparently haven’t changed. But I am sure it is against the FAA regulations to have a child over 24 months riding on a parents lap, with no assigned seat. I don’t know how often airlines get fined for it, it’s probably one of those things that the FAA doesn’t crack down upon much, because how can they know unless it’s reported. Airlines are getting fined for different things all the time, and generally nobody in the public finds out about it. I don’t think anyone would get in serious trouble for it, certainly not the pilots, they probably knew nothing about the situation. If anything, the airline would get a fine and the employees involved would get retrained.
But regardless, this situation makes my blood boil, treating people like this. I understand why the passenger was intimidated, and felt unsafe to make a stand on this, after all that has gone on, sadly. Sometimes the airline employees are in a huge hurry to load, and treat people dismissively. It would be worth taking just a few extra minutes to untangle a situation and do the right thing.
(a) No person may operate an airplane unless there are available during the takeoff, en route flight, and landing—
(1) An approved seat or berth for each person on board the airplane who has reached his second birthday; and
(2) An approved safety belt for separate use by each person on board the airplane who has reached his second birthday, except that two persons occupying a berth may share one approved safety belt and two persons occupying a multiple lounge or divan seat may share one approved safety belt during en route flight only.
(b) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board an airplane operated under this part shall occupy an approved seat or berth with a separate safety belt properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing. A safety belt provided for the occupant of a seat may not be used by more than one person who has reached his or her second birthday.
Maybe if the standby passenger was the one insisting on the seat, s/he should have been the one to hold the toddler on his lap for the entirety of the flight.
I think I remember reading an article about someone being stuck on the tarmac for hours waiting to take off and they found the home phone number of the CEO (maybe it was a weekend) and actually called him to ask for help. Can’t recall what airline it was.
I was on a United flight out of Newark on Monday and was really appalled by how rude the ground crew was. The inbound flight was late and the ground crew basically yelled at everyone getting on that they needed to hurry because we were boarding too slowly and if we didn’t hurry up we’d lose our place in the takeoff queue. Two passengers across the aisle from me had been assigned the same seat and the ground crew just kept yelling that everyone needed to be seated quickly because it was a full flight. I have no idea how the United scanning machine let 2 people board with the same seat number.
I had purchased the tickets before Dr. Dao was beaten up and dragged off his flight and I will not be flying United’s “friendly skies” again any time soon. It’s like they don’t even realize that people are scared and upset about their crew and all the yelling that was going on as I boarded didn’t help matters.
Yes! @GnocchiB that seems fare! At one point I had a paid ticket for a two year old and an infant lap child. Some how we were seated in different rows, the man seated next to my two year old’s assigned seat refused to move. I said fine and handed him her with diaper bag and started explaining what the snacks and toys were and thanked him for watching her while I was 10+ rows a away, he decided to move before take off!
I think kids 3 and under with a paid seat should be given a large neon orange sticker stating that they have a paid seat so people don’t assume parents are trying to get their kids a seat for free.
@GnocciB - I think that phone call to the CEO was Northwest Airlines, now folded into Delta. I remember the incident also - fortunately not because I was stuck on the tarmac. I also just read about it. Wow, that was a number of years ago. Amazing how improvements have failed to materialize in air travel.
They can’t leave you stuck on the tarmac anymore. The limit is what, four hours? There is a limit.)
(I had this happen to me recently. Crazy flight from the Far East to Texas, direct. Couldn’t land where planned due to storms, couldn’t circle due to low fuel, so we were diverted to another Texas city. Much suspense over what would happen next as all the rules came into play. We needed to refuel, but it would take time, maybe hit the four hour mark. The crew had been on duty for a long time, maybe hitting the limit for them. And then the airport where we landed didn’t have the customs and immigration staff to let us off the plane. It was crazy. Good crew kept us informed and full of snacks and drinks and everyone was okay.)
One of the “law firm soap opera” TV shows had an episode about the tarmac holds - the hot shot lawyer called a judge. Shameless pandering to the travel weary - I liked it.
Ralph Nader and someone in the President’s cabinet were both bumped from an overbooked flight, back in the 1970’s I think, and the complaining and legal cases brought by them led to the FAA giving passengers certain rights if they are involuntarily denied boarding (IDB).