<p>When parent posters express concern about the liberal leanings of faculty, tenured professors grading conservative students unfairly, and so on … is this a relatively minor concern (maybe a couple of problematic professors in four years), or a major concern (classes every term where professors are unfair)? Do you see universities as potentially damaging educational environments for your kids? As useless educational environments? Do you look for more “conservative” educational options?</p>
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<p>It sounds like we need an AA, outreach, early support system, merit/need based aid, out reach weekends and diversity sleep-overs in order to entice conservative professors to join the ranks of the undiversified. We’ve identified diversity as a desired and valuable trait in institutions of higher learning. If it is achievable and desired (and in private institutions MANDATED) in the student body why settle for anything less in the University ruling class?</p>
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<p>That’s a charitable way to look at it.</p>
<p>When I saw Do colleges respect intellectual diversity? I didn’t initially think of diversity as different political or social viewpoints. To me, intellectual diversity means brilliant people, smart people, and not so smart people. I have always found it interesting that in most public schools the very bright go to the same schools as the learning disabled, average intelligence and below average, but when it comes time to go to university, at the top schools only the brilliant need apply. Those poor geniuses lose out on the opportunity to study with the not so smart, many whom they will have to deal with when they get out into the real world.</p>
<p>alh,
While I think you already know my opinion on it from previous threads, I will say that I think the biggest losers in the 90% liberal professor scenario are the liberal students.</p>
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<p>That’s what I thought this thread was going to be about too. I went to a community college first, then finished in a four-year. I learned a LOT from people in the community college, including the ones who maybe didn’t have the best grades or who didn’t have school as their top priority. A lot of times that was due to the other responsibilities in their lives which took priority.</p>
<p>In one English composition class, I was floored by the essay of a woman who had lived in a very conservative religious community, and I don’t mean “voting Republican” style of conservative, I mean a way on the edge “women should always do what their man says, because God wants it that way, also women who don’t wear dresses are whores” conclave. She gradually challenged what she had been taught, internally, and one night she took her daughter and got the heck out of dodge on a bus. </p>
<p>Her grammar and writing style is not what you would expect to find at an elite university (although thinking of the writing thread on this board . . . maybe not so far off) but she would have been an asset to any campus, in my opinion. I don’t know what became of her or even if she was planning on transferring to a four-year of if she was just going for her associate’s, but I hope she found happiness.</p>
<p>Bay, I actually don’t know your opinion on this. Are you saying conservative students aren’t disadvantaged by liberal leaning professors at schools such as those your daughters attended, but liberal students are because they don’t have the opportunity to be exposed to “conservative” views in college?</p>
<p>I put “conservative” in quotes because I really don’t know what it means in this context.</p>
<p>alh,
Okay sorry, I thought you and I had this interchange before. Must have been someone else.</p>
<p>Speaking from my own experience with my Ds at very liberal colleges, my observation is that they came out of it <em>more</em> conservative than they went in, as well as somewhat cynical (sadly) about their educations. This is due to the fact that their ideas were constantly challenged (and my D’s were forced to mentally, if not orally, defend them) and their impressions of “liberals” were downgraded due to their perceived lack of tolerance of and interest in differing opinions.</p>
<p>I say that liberal students are the biggest losers, because they are not exposed to conservative thought at an intellectual level; so like you and many on this thread, they don’t even know what being “conservative” means, other than the erroneous belief that it means they are religious, which is not accurate.</p>
<p>Bay - if we’ve discussed it before and I have forgotten, I apologize.</p>
<p>I remember you reporting inappropriate electioneering by one of your daughter’s professors. Is this the type of behavior to which you are objecting? And that you think is potentially damaging to liberal students, because they don’t see any “conservative” professors?</p>
<p>Or are you talking about classroom instruction? How does one teach a “conservative” point of view? In economics, history, literature? Could you give me some examples?</p>
<p>adding:
maybe you could give me an example of the sort of classroom instruction that created your daughters’ cynicism and how the same material could be better handled? An example of how the class could have included “conservative thought at an intellectual level”?</p>
<p>I am trying to understand what you are objecting to.</p>
<p>alh,</p>
<p>See my post #71, and limabean’s follow-up, which I found interesting.</p>
<p>I don’t think most liberal parents and liberals in general would perceive that there is any damage in their children being taught only liberal thought in college. They probably look at this as a good thing.</p>
<p>People who value critical thinking, and have an interest in understanding how everyone in the world thinks, not just those they agree with, would want their kids to be exposed to all points of view. I think this is fairly obvious.</p>
<p>Wow Sally, guessing you are one of the intellectual elite based on this statement: “When one side has the lock on science-deniers and people who oppose critical thinking, it’s hard to understand where they fit in institutions devoted to intellectual development at a high level.” </p>
<p>Using your simplistic reasoning, perhaps I should counter with the old axiom, “Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach”…Not what I think, but, if seems comparable to your sophomoric statement…</p>
<p>Bay, I added to my post after you responded. Is it possible to give me an example of what your daughters wanted to study, but didn’t get in class? Did they want the list in #71 taught or discussed? If so, in what context? In what class? Could you give me an example of classroom material your daughters found objectionable? Or how all points of view weren’t discussed? Which sorts of classes were most problematic?</p>
<p>I am really trying to understand your point of view. Thanks.</p>
<p>I think that’s astute, Bay.</p>
<p>Nobody would accuse me of being “conservative,” but most liberals would say I am not liberal. I see both sides of the debate. I’ve never been much of a group think type. I used to joke I was an anarchist before anarchy meant a political movement, which seems to defeat the point of anarchy, anyway. </p>
<p>I think we should take care of those who are unable to do so themselves, out of enlightened self interest, somewhere along the lines of “there but for the Grace of God go I.” I am fully committed to this position.</p>
<p>But, the liberalism we currently see seems to me to be some sort of religion, anymore, complete with dietary and thought restrictions, and I see it as having fallen into the same trap all US movements inevitably do: Puritanism. </p>
<p>So, when students are not exposed to Jeffersonian thought, or to other so-called conservative views, they are not being taught to think critically and not arriving at their own position. When this happens, they are learning Dogma. And liberalism, as it is practiced today, is a dogma, a religion. </p>
<p>Social conservatives are basing their thoughts on their own Dogma, generally also religious, if an older kind of religion.</p>
<p>Everyone would be better off if this stuff could stay out of the classroom, but good luck with that.</p>
<p>Would a year long required class for all freshmen that included reading the Oxford Anotated Bible with Apocrypha, Herotodus, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Homer, Thuycides, Euripedes,Virgil, Ovid, Cicero,Seneca et.al., be considered liberal or conservative?</p>
<p>ExhaustedDad, you tell me. What place does creationism, for example, have in a science curriculum?</p>
<h1>134^^there is more than one way to read all those. The readings can be considered “liberal” or “conservative” depending on your pov.</h1>
<p>Sally, spoken like a true liberal…attempt to change the conversation…again, you essentially stated that conservatives are simply not cut out to be professors, since they apparently don’t agree with your “science” or are simply unable to think “critically”; too funny! I wonder what your savior, Barry Obama, would have to say about “creationism” since he purports to be a Christian? If he truly is a Christian, then he does believe in creationism, and low and behold he was a professor…how in the heck did that happen?</p>
<p>Yow, nothing sets folks off quite like the fear of liberalism. Or conservatism. Take it in, process, and come out with your own well-informed views. No? In reading this thread, I wondered how many actually talk to their kids about individual profs, their viewpoints and the range of approaches to the subject at hand. D1 is at one of those crunchy colleges. She’s gotten plenty of diversity of views, discussions and grown from it. Her friends cover various beliefs and opinions. She is who she is. The prof who played a major role in one of her most arduous research projects didn’t share her views. Didn’t stop D1 from promoting her perspective. Great experience. Life lesson. In fact, knowing her prof opposed her position encouraged her to dig deep in her research and her analysis, form a well-considered argument. Not just state her points.</p>
<p>@sally, the harping on evolution is just the typical kind of knee-jerk disrespect I see of liberals denegrating conservatives Just because someone might believe in smaller gov’t doesn’t mean they they are anti-science.</p>
<p>“knee jerk disrespect I see of liberals denegrating other camps” - that’s plenty broad, don’t you think? Is that a clear statement of distrust of liberals, all of them? Ie, same thing you critique? Just asking.</p>