So colleges don’t really give a hoot about what transpires on their campuses? Of course they do --and of course there are warnings, suspensions and expulsions – students are “being disciplined” just like Elliot.
And Elliot was disciplined without the “due process” that you complain about in the college panels. But now you don’t seem to have an issue with it. Seems to me the NFL stood up and did the right thing here.
I’m with OhioDad…really comparing pro-football to colleges???.. the NFL franchises PAY players a ton of money to play. Students PAY colleges a ton of money to attend. The contractual obligations are very different IMO.
If you compare the two systems @Ohiodad51 both systems adjudicate criminal matters outside the criminal justice system something you have criticized sharply. Matters that you have said should be in the hands of police and prosecutors. Both the NFL system and the college panels reserve the right to their own adjudication of the matter and in this case the NFL simply disregarded the findings of the prosecutor’s and police investigation. Neither system gives the parties the same procedural due process you would find in criminal courts as the objectives and potential punishment are different. And both systems provide education on violence and sexual harassment as preventive measures.
Both systems put together panels and investigators that include people of diverse backgrounds which include peers of the accused – in the NFL they appear to be retired players. Some colleges use outside attorneys or judges but also draw from their own communities and student body. The NFL appears to do the same drawing on the expertise of individuals with a background in judicial and public service, academia, mental health, law enforcement and former players.
Yes, there are distinct and obvious parallels.
No they don’t. And it is not remotely the same thing. I can’t believe that you actually think that.
Ridiculous, and just part of the ploy to get rid of the “Dear Colleague” guidance and remove the protections for rape victims.
@Ohiodad51 - “No they don’t” what? Adjudicate violations of their conduct code some of which include criminal conduct? Yes they do. They just did.
As it has been explained to me the NFL’s framework is to undertake an investigation and have those investigators come to conclusions. Those conclusions are then sent to the Commissioner who makes a final decision. Based on this case they do not appear to care what the disposition of the matter was in the criminal justice system.
The jury also rendered a decision on the Swift case today which was the original subject of this thread. They ruled in favor of Swift on her counterclaim and absolved her mother and the radio promotions director of liability. So Mueller gets nothing from this litigation.
^Ezekial Elliott got a 16 million dollar signing bonus. Even if this incident costs him a million or two, he’ll still earn an order of magnitude more money by the time he’s 26, than most people earn in a lifetime. You can’t truly believe his situation is comparable to the average college student, facing the possibility of expulsion.
The bad publicity hurts him and he has lost almost half his season. And I am sure you have read his response – the NFL’s evidence is “cherry-picked” with “factual inaccuracies” that “ignores other critical evidence.” Sounds very much like what we hear when a university renders a disciplinary finding.
But my focus is really on the process – the adjudication of criminal matters by the NFL and colleges. Of course I think they both are entitled to enforce their conduct codes in a manner consistent with the terms of those policies.
Assuming for the sake of argument the analogy fits, what is your point? That the NFL shouldn’t be hearing cases like Elliott’s? That male college students need to form a union to protect their interests, the way the NFLPA protects the interests of its members? That every college should be allowed to make up its own rules, the way the NFL does, which would require abolishing Title IX?
I understand what HarvestMoon1 is saying. The salient points for me are:
The NFL and the colleges have processes that are not dependent on criminal prosecution to go forward.
The NFL and the colleges have processes that may not provide the level of due process that one would find in the court system. The NFL process as described does not. Additionally, these processes (in the case of the colleges anyway) do not require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Does the NFL require proof at that level?
These are true parallels.
I think part of HarvestMoon1’s point is: Where is the outrage about the unfairness of the NFL process?
You may feel that the other factors (pro football player vs. college student, employee vs. paying “customer,” people in an overall group where you may not know anyone personally vs. college students) make the parallel irrelevant. But it does not seem to me that there is a point in denying that the parallel exists.
Several people on this forum have called for criminal prosecution as the sole solution in cases of sexual assault. This is very cold comfort, if one is trying to prove something “beyond a reasonable doubt” when it happened in private, and especially when the people involved knew each other ahead of time. Good luck even getting a prosecutor to bring a case.
Yes, it hurts his ‘brand’, assuming that he has any endorsements. Yes, he loses a ~half-year of pay. But, this will have zero impact on his nfl career.
That assumes that there should be any outrage (outside of the Dallas zip codes). The nfl has a bargaining agreement. The players voted on it, and accepted the contract that they must adhere to, (for a BIG piece of the pie). If the contract allows the discipline, it allows the discipline.
Well let’s get our facts straight first. The current Personal Conduct Policy that is in effect was not collectively bargained. The 2007 policy was the subject of collective bargaining but after Aaron Hernandez, Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson and at least a dozen more Goodell knew he had to do something. Jeff Pash, General Counsel of the NFL issued a statement saying it was a “mistake” to leave discipline of violent or threatening conduct to the criminal justice system. The players weren’t getting the message.
So in 2014 Goodell exercised his authority under the NFL bylaws and unilaterally revised the conduct policy with no input from the NFLPA. He made substantive changes including the minimum 6 game suspension for an offense of domestic violence. Then he got the support of the owners and publicly announced the changes. The NFLPA was infuriated that they had been cut out and filed a grievance. It was arbitrated and Goodell’s authority to unilaterally make the revisions was upheld.
As far as the colleges are concerned students do in fact agree to the Title IX policies and procedures. These policies are part of every college’s student handbook and it is a condition of enrollment that the students acknowledge and agree to these policies. Many courts have held the student conduct codes to be a contract.
ETA: And that is not to say there are not problems with how the colleges execute those procedures. But the students have notice of what they are when they enroll and agree to them as a condition of enrolling.
To the extent college students are equivalent to NFL star players(which I find ridiculous), I think it’s stupid the NFL conducts its own mini criminal investigations and trials. Let’s be clear that the NFL’s personal conduct rules do not exist to help victims or to give victims a way to seek justice. They exist primarily to protect the advertising revenue of the NFL, and secondarily to give the owners additional leverage over the players.
It’s not that the people are equivalent (obviously there are differences), it’s that the processes have certain similarities, procedurally–just speaking about the process. 
Title IX does not exist to “give victims a way to seek justice” either. It exists to ensure that everyone has equal opportunity to receive an education. And of course colleges have a vested interest in the safety of their campuses.
Personally I do not think the efforts of the NFL or the colleges in attempting to address issues that the criminal justice system has failed miserably with are “stupid.” These crimes impact them and their communities. And of course the impact of violence against women should be everyone’s concern. Perhaps if some of these players had been forced to confront their demons during their college years we would not have to read (or see pictures of) the alleged abuse – which recently has included allegations of child abuse and the assault of a player’s wife while she was pregnant.
I usually do not participate in the football discussions-- the stories are too difficult to read. And yes I try to remain aware that for every player that does this sort of thing there are 10 that don’t. I am happy to discuss the process though.
That may have been the original purpose of Title IX, but the interpretation and regulations promulgated under Title IX have evolved far beyond that original purpose.
The purpose has never changed. Ensuring that students all have equal access to education is what the law says on its face. You don’t like the results of the enforcement. Not quite sure what you expect the schools to do when someone makes a claim of sexual harassment. With or without the DCL they have to investigate as it’s a violation of their conduct code. That investigation is going to happen no matter what happens to the DCL. I suppose they could play around with Title lX but not sure this is the right time to alienate yet another class of people. Let’s see what happens.
Title IX is only OK if everyone has equal access to education and the society of the college. There has been too much abuse lately by colleges and students to score brownie points with the SJW crowd. Football players are contractual employees, not paying customers as college students are. There are no football teams throwing their paid employees to the curb without pretty substantial evidence including video. There are unis kicking kids to the curb with little to no substantiation and they need to stop and if they can’t then the Feds or the judicial system needs to stop them and they will. Football players also have access to the court system. We all have access to the court system.