<p>I wasn’t trying to pin responsibility on the alleged perpetrator’s community college. I just think that we should be thinking about ways to address the possibility of an international student who would seek to flee and avoid court proceedings in the U.S.</p>
<p>I like Mom2collegekids idea because we have a special circumstance in this case; the student seemingly has the means to flee to a nation with which the U.S.A. has no extradition treaty.</p>
<p>In Washington State, the average sentence for vehicular homicide (almost always the result of a plea bargain) is under three years, and a $1,000 fine. Those imprisoned almost always get out well before that. Assuming he is guilty, the alleged perpetrator will likely suffer more from having been kicked out of his American university than from the legal system. </p>
<p>The perpetrator can be sued by the family of the victim, but his family is not liable for any damages. There is not likely a lot of money there.</p>
<p>Though I am deeply sorry about what happened here, and I particularly ache when young people’s lives are taken so early, I don’t see the big deal here as to the person driving the car being an international community college student. So what?</p>
<p>Sentencing has changed last June.
*increases a vehicular homicide (DUI) sentence from 31-41 months to 78-102 months, the same as First Degree Manslaughter, which is defined under state law as a reckless act that kills. *</p>
<p>Yes, but almost all the cases are plea-bargained down. (Vehicular manslaughter, etc., etc.)</p>
<p>Mini, your probably right, and that may motivate Xu to abide by the law and remain here for all the court proceedings. We’ve all read about cases wherein reckless drivers who cause death serve little, if any, time in jail. And perhaps that would be the most practical outcome in this case; Xu’s family negotiates with the victim’s family the and survivors, a large amount of restitution is provided, and the prosecutor ultimately recommends probation. Maybe that’s justice.</p>
<p>Cpt, the point here for some folks is that this particular international student appears, in today’s vernacular, to be a bit of a rake and 1 percenter to boot. Also of concern is the fact that he hails from a nation that has no extradition treaty with the U.S.A., a nation where greasing palms is the order of the day, as the Bejing Real Estate mogul so stated in an interview on 60 Minutes last night. Also, it is believed that the judge granted bail because, in part, Xu was said to be enrolled at a local community college. The Seattle Times story states that his enrollment has not been confirmed, further giving pause to folks who fear he may flee to China to avoid accountability and liability. I hope that henceforth Xu demonstrates in court the character he failed to show at the scene of the accident and surprises we doubters with his cooperation with American justice.</p>
<p>He was only here for 8 weeks, originally.
Has there been any indication he will stay to be sentenced?</p>
<p>Again, so what? It happens. So we don’t let students from countries that do not have extradition agreements come into the US? I don’t think so. Yes, he can leave and have a chance no one will find him. </p>
<p>We have a terrible problem here about illegals coming here driving cars owned by one person who “rents/lends” them out, and when there is an accident, the driver disappears, and you can get what the minimum insurance is on the vehicle if any, or the vehicle is deserted and is not even registered. Happens all of the time–happened to us twice. </p>
<p>It’s a terrible thing that happened, and if that driver disappears, I guess the family will be outraged, but it is a common thing when you are dealing with undocumented folks. This student is at least documented, and there may be some money in play. What is it the family wants? That the student spend his year in jail? Or some payout money? What is going to soothe the family the most? </p>
<p>The student will be kicked out of the country most likely before or after his time done in the pen, or he’ll skip out, and not be allowed to return under that identity. </p>
<p>My DH’s cousin had an accident , gosh, 40 years ago, He fled, had no insurance, had failed to pay the premiums after the initial payment. He was over 18, had no money, nada, and the person in the other care became a paraplegic as result of the injuries Said cousin spend about 6 months in some jail or some place had to pay $90 a month which he could not scrape up most of the time, and then the victim died. No fairness in the world. Laura Bush, former first lady, had a car accident and the victim died. I don;t think she did any time though it was her fault. </p>
<p>That this is an international student makes it no worse than if it were not. Ads Mini states, and I do believe him on this, most international students do not get involved in these sort of things, in fact, waaaaay under the averages. It’s not a big time problem. Now the undocumented residents in my area, that is a whole other thing. I swear I see the one who hit me still driving around. I reported him once and know he’s been thrown in the klink a number of times, but he is still standing around for work still driving, and the scum bags “lending” out these cars to the undocumented, do a brisk business in my town. That is a sytematic issue. What happened with this accident is a fluke, single episode type of thing. There is no plague of international students having accidents and running out on the consequences and financial retributions. Just one of those unlucky things that this happened.</p>
<p>*In Washington State, the average sentence for vehicular homicide (almost always the result of a plea bargain) is under three years, and a $1,000 fine. Those imprisoned almost always get out well before that. Assuming he is guilty, the alleged perpetrator will likely suffer more from having been kicked out of his American university than from the legal system. </p>
<p>The perpetrator can be sued by the family of the victim, but his family is not liable for any damages. There is not likely a lot of money there.*</p>
<p>Suing someone who has fled the country isn’t going to result in anything. Int’ls should have to purchase some kind of liability insurance to get their education visas. Liability insurance isn’t that expensive. And, if so many of these kids are from wealthy families then paying $1000 per year for such a policy is peanuts. </p>
<p>As I understand it, student int’ls have to purchase health insurance while they’re here so that they won’t become a health burden if they should become sick. They have to show that they have funds for a year so that they don’t become a burden on society while in school. They should also have to have some kind of liability insurance (maybe including auto insurance) while they’re here as well. Coming to this country isn’t a right. </p>
<p>This is different from domestic students causing problems. They’re not likely leaving the country. A judgment will be on them for 10 (??) years. Their wages can be garnished, etc.</p>
<p>*Again, so what? It happens. So we don’t let students from countries that do not have extradition agreements come into the US? I don’t think so. Yes, he can leave and have a chance no one will find him. *</p>
<p>No. Require them to have liability insurance…maybe up to $1M or more.</p>
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<p>People driving motor vehicles are already under that requirement, or otherwise show financial responsibility. Not that there are not any violators of such laws.</p>
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<p>Bail only applies to those accused (not convicted) of serious-enough crimes.</p>
<p>Note that there is also a law that says that “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”</p>
<p>If $2million in cash can be paid so quickly, how can it be excessive?</p>
<p>This isn’t a case of an international student as much as it is a case of a young man from a wealthy family with no ties to the local community or even the country, potentially getting away with a wrist slap despite causing reckless death & destruction.</p>
<p>Some wealthy families realize that helping their children learn from and pay for their mistakes is best in the long run.
But the USA perhaps cares more about not pi$$ing off China, than it does its own citizens.</p>
<p>Another requirement? When there so few cases? More laws? I don’ t think so. If it becomes as systematic problem, yes. But the time and money to address something that happen so rarely can be used for something else. So we require those who legally come into this county to study to put up a bond but nothing for the illegal ones? And what about the tourists? They could do the same. My brother has a niece who borrowed his car and had an accident while here in this country—she was a visiting international. </p>
<p>The student hasn’t flown the coop yet. That he is a foreign student is what is causing the controversy. What if he had been one of the good ol’ boy regulars with a number of such things on their rap sheets and not a dime to pay anyone back? Would that make everyone feel better? I’m not sure what is going on here.</p>
<p>And I forgot about the bail that was set and paid. Double the $1 million being suggested here. Heck if he makes off, I think the district makes money. That’s $2million vs the $1000 and less than 3 months that is a usual sentence. We aren’t thinking that this guy should serve more or pay more because he is a well to do international student, do we? Look up what usually happens for this sort of thing in that jurisdiction. I think we’re all better off he bails on the bail.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is that he is Chinese, that is causing an uproar.</p>
<p>Why wouldnt it be that the car he hit was full of children on their way to a birthday party?
Killing their driver & critically injuring several of the children?</p>
<p>According to Dan Satterberg, King county prosecutor, 10% of DUI cases are reduced by plea bargain.</p>
<p>The accident itself is a whole other issue. That isn’t how this was positioned by the OP. The crux of the matter seemed to be that the student is international, got bail because he was supposed to be going to college and may not be and some question is being raised about some bond or requirement that they have to put down money to stay in college if they come here. </p>
<p>Well, looking at the stats of most CCs , really most colleges at all, that he dropped out makes him just like a lot of US students. Immigration doesn’t sit there waiting to swoop on foreign college kids who drop out either. There are US perps who flee also, that 's why there is bail. The kid’s bail is paid, his passport is taken. What more should be done? Yes he can jump bail as a lot of US citizens do. And don’t think our kids who go abroad are ones who entrust the judicial system if they get into trouble. Uh, uh, uhn! This is just not a huge problem given the many we have. Foreign students are not a high risk troublemaking group, and if this one flies the coop, there will be money gained, unlike for alot of the perps who get little or no consequence. </p>
<p>Yes, the focus instead should be on the families who have suffered this loss and of those injured in this accident. I guess putting that driver’s head on a stick might make them feel better, vengeance wise, but, you know, we don’t do that to those who even deliberately cause such harm.</p>
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<p>Coming to this country may not be a right, but the US government and universities do feel a compelling interest in facilitating international students hoping to study in the US for many reasons whether it’s strengthening the applicant pool, spreading of American cultural capital/goodwill, and having more full-pay students as they’re usually not eligible for most scholarships/FA. </p>
<p>To some extent, this is the same sort of angst I hear from in-state residents complaining about the increased preference for OOS students because the latter are more likely to be full pay at the OOS rate. While I can understand where they’re coming from…one key issue has been the steady erosion of state taxpayer support to the point some state university systems only get about 11% of their increasingly constrained budget from the state taxpayers. Hey…at some point, if the state taxpayers aren’t funding the public universities sufficiently…they’ll have to start looking elsewhere for funding sources. </p>
<p>An angst borne of a mentality similar to one I see in a neighboring well-off region($90k+/year per capita) which has had a long history of being in such financial trouble to the point they were mandated by courts to have their financial affairs overseen by the state government on and off over the last 2 or so decades. </p>
<p>One main root cause…well-off residents demanding and having their regional officials implement many government provided services they desired while simultaneously insisting taxes be kept so low the town’s almost perpetually in the red financially.</p>
<p>“According to Dan Satterberg, King county prosecutor, 10% of DUI cases are reduced by plea bargain.”</p>
<p>DUI cases, NOT vehicular homicide cases.</p>
<p>Cpt, I’m a bit lost as to how some of your arguments apply to this specific situation. This case got my attention because of the ease at which a community college student met bail. Even the prosecutor has reportedly said that it was a surprise that such a high bail was so easily satisfied because apparently that is rare, at least in King County, Washington. Also of note is the fact that the defendant is an international who will be untouchable by U.S. authorities should he make his way back home prior to the presentation of the case to a judge.</p>
<p>Yes, we are very familiar with the way some illegal aliens avoid accountability for causing harm to property and person in automobile accidents. Obviously, there are American citizens who are likewise irresponsible. But how is that related to the facts at hand in the matter in Des Moines, WA?</p>
<p>Finally, I believe it is valid to question whether or not the U.S. government or the host college should require some $$ commitment from internationals hoping to study in the U.S. Someone made a very keen point earlier; US colleges require internationals (and domestic students, for that matter) to purchase health insurance as a condition of enrollment. So why not require some other demonstration of assets?</p>
<p>Look, there may not be a palatable solution in this case, because there are ways where the accused could readily make his way back home and avoid U.S. jurisprudence. Even some American citizens find a way to render themselves immune from U.S. justice overseas. The Connecticut student wrestler/rapist jumped bail and lived in Europe for years before being returned to the U.S. The French shielded Pennsylvania murderer Ira Einhorn likewise for many years. Other U.S. killers made their way to Canada, which refuses to return accused killers to the U.S. if the death penalty is on the table. I’ve gotten far afield from the auto crash, but I am just searching my brain wondering if there is some way the accused’s appearance in court can be assured. Maybe not.</p>
<p>*Coming to this country may not be a right, but the US government and universities do feel a compelling interest in facilitating international students hoping to study in the US for many reasons whether it’s strengthening the applicant pool, spreading of American cultural capital/goodwill, and having more full-pay students as they’re usually not eligible for most scholarships/FA. *</p>
<p>then the colleges/gov’t can either provide or demand liability insurance. If colleges feel that they benefit from these full-payers, then they (the colleges) or the students can buy insurance.</p>