I find it interesting that something as basic as a small overreaction by authority becomes the focus of vast hand-wringing and then over-reaction the other way. This kind of thing happens all the time, a form the “15 minutes of fame” way we blow through today’s human interest items. This applies to the tragic and the comic and the insignificant. This kid’s experience, to me, says nothing about Islam, maybe a tiny bit about being dark-skinned but mostly the weirdness of authority when confronted with something outside their box. In this case, if you’ve seen the pictures, the item doesn’t much look like a clock and, in fact, looks a lot like a bomb in the movies. It made sense to sit him down for questioning. But not to handcuff him.
Turns out there’s a good reason - or seems to be a good reason - and that speaks to the over-reaction which is making this kid seem like the next great genius or something. As [this piece](http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/2015/09/17/reverse-engineering-ahmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/) says, if you look at the high-res photos it appears he disassembled an old Radio Shack clock and put it in a briefcase-shaped pencil case. I’m not going into the “he didn’t invent anything” junk because he’s a kid and to him this may well be “inventing”. But the first over-reaction seems overwhelmed, IMHO, by the second over-reaction to a kid that disassembled a clock.
1: It exists and is widespread not only in the larger US popular culture among many upper-middle class professionals or those aspiring to such professions, but also within academia itself.
2: The actions of the English teacher and moreso, the Principal in this case confirms this stereotype as it demonstrates lack of critical thinking, insisting on doubling down on "respect my authoritah", and showing a form of anti-intellectualism possibly borne of resentment against more academically accomplished individuals/intellectuals/nerds.
“Cobrat, my point is that any type of stereotyping negates “critical thinking.” Blaming the handling of this matter on your stereotype of K-12 teachers as being intellectually “sub-par” is no better than the stereotyping alleged in this thread.”
Yep. If you have read many of cobrats posts, you will notice that he stereotypes absolutely everyone, based upon his personal experiences, that of family and friends, and of historical stereotypes, of course. No one is an individual, living a life based upon their own experiences and choices.
Wondering if you are aware Cobrat that in recognition of the dangers teachers face in American classrooms, the NEA our nation’s largest teachers union, offers members a complimentary $150,000 insurance policy to compensate their families in the event they are slain at work.
Somehow I don’t think challenges to their authority is the first thing that crosses their minds in cases such as this.
Without commenting on this issue or your opinion in any way, I will point out that a few people, or even a few hundred people when talking about a group this large, cannot confirm a stereotype. They can only serve as examples of it.
The chance that a teacher will be killed while at work is miniscule. Not zero, but minuscule. The cost of insuring against it, also miniscule.
If a teacher thinks that this virtually worthless insurance policy is proof that they are likely to be killed at work, they’re just demonstrating cobrat’s point that they’re not very smart.
Consolation, I really don’t disagree much at all with your post #314. In fact, I could have written that, though far less eloquently. I believe it has been a huge mistake over the years to try to remove the dictators from Muslim countries, evil as they were. Unfortunately, what seems to move in to fill the power void are Islamic fanatics, and they are not rare, as people like to pretend–they are plentiful. But allowing that is not our fault (except for in Iraq, obviously, moving out of there was idiotic), but the fault of the people who live in those countries, and support that kind of ideology.
Then again, you see what happens when we (and others) disengage, and you see the hundreds of thousands of refugees in Europe. Not everything is our fault, yet not everything is our responsibility.
“#2: The actions of the English teacher and moreso, the Principal in this case confirms this stereotype as it demonstrates lack of critical thinking, insisting on doubling down on “respect my authoritah”, and showing a form of anti-intellectualism possibly borne of resentment against more academically accomplished individuals/intellectuals/nerds.”
Oh my God, give me a break, here. In certain lines of work, it is drilled into your mind that you have any question whatsoever, you report it. You can’t take a chance trying to decide for yourself if something is a threat or not, it is your responsibility to take action, better safe than sorry. I would guess that something about the situation just didn’t seem right to the English teacher, so she did exactly what she was supposed to do, tell the principal. Sometimes you are concerned, there is something that seems off, and it is your responsibility to not ignore it, you need to bring attention to it. Same with the principal. None of us were there to make the call, they did what they thought was right, they can’t take a chance with children involved, so the safest course of action was to call the police. Not because they are stupid, or anti intellectual, but because they were the responsible parties. It would have been far easier to ignore it, and blow it off, but in today’s world, they just can’t take a chance.
Oh, to have the life of someone who has no responsibility for other people, and can just Monday morning quarterback the people who do.
And in the process, you completely ignored a Texas article which pointed to that very school district as one with serious issues regarding racial tensions between an increasingly growing minority population and a White dominated local elite along with problems of local law enforcement and educational officials being inclined towards heavily punitive measures against K-12 students…especially minorities.
Moreover, several other commenters and reports have stated the principal made the call to police AFTER they already knew the clock wasn’t a bomb and that it WASN’T A HOAX contrary to some right-wing blog/news sites like Fox News or Breibart*.
In this case and according to that article and several other reports…the school admins and local law enforcement were were acting very characteristically in their “respect my authoritah” inclinations, being extremely punitive to students, and having serious issues with a growing racial minority population.
Incidentally, I had a raging online debate with an acquaintance on Trump's ignorant assertions about birthright citizenship. He kept insisting Trump was right and went on using Breibart as his primary source and being more and more adamant about how birthright citizenship only applied to children born on US soil to legal immigrants eligible to become US citizenship after naturalization. He ended up going silent after I pointed out a piece of information Breibart left out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark ...an 1898 case which the majority opinion clearly stated if a child is born on American soil to anyone subject to US laws....he/she automatically becomes a citizen at birth and retains it unless he/she actively renounces it through an act or his/her parents does so on his/her behalf before he.she reaches the age of majority.
I wouldn’t consider having cops called on a 9th grader AFTER the principal had already confirmed the clock was not a bomb and that it wasn’t intended as a hoax, said 9th grader being negatively stereotyped by said cops during questioning, being subjected to questioning for several hours while being denied contact with his parents despite being a minor, and having the principal issue a two-faced statement “welcoming” said 9th grader to return* to said HS while simultaneously defending what transpired to be “small overreaction”.
Hopefully, the ACLU will step in and put local law enforcement and school district on notice that what they did is unacceptable and yes…un-American.
Said 9th grader was considering transferring HSs....I wonder why....
^^ First, how is your online debate about Trump (who I probably detest even more than you do), relevant to this argument? Unless it is merely an aside point, I doubt I would disagree with you on any idiocy that he clings to.
Back to the subject, whether the school district has some sort of racial issues may be completely irrelevant to this story. You are making an assumption, you don’t know the entire story, and you haven’t heard from all of the parties involved. The schools have been living in a state of fear lately, worrying about things they never had to before. As a personal anecdote, my youngest son came home from high school about four years ago, talking about a shooter drill they had that day. He wasn’t going to a massive public school in a bad area, he was going to one of the top private high schools in the county, in a fairly affluent area. It’s an entirely different world than it used to be, and many teachers and administrators probably feel like they can’t blow everything off and take a chance. Particularly in the high schools, there is far more to worry about than there used to be–like if one of your students is going to try to kill you and anyone else he can.
This is ironic considering you tend to be inclined to defend law enforcement and discount racial issues relevant in other threads where racial issues are an important factor. That and the article I cited clearly stated this particular school district is one of those in Texas with serious issues with racial tensions due to a growing minority population and a White dominated local elite not only doing their utmost to maintain their grip on local power, but also inclined towards encouraging or at least condoning punitive actions by educational officials and law enforcement against K-12 students…especially minorities.
Considering said officials and law enforcement already tend to have the benefit of the doubt from the local governing elite and those who benefit or at least aren’t targeted for such punitive actions and they have a strong incentive in preserving their image and positions of power…a critical thinker should be MORE skeptical when they issue statements defending their actions…not less.
It’s even more curious as the very same reactions would never prompt such an overreaction at the HS I attended when I was there or from what I’ve observed from more recent visits as an alum…even now. If anything, it would just mark him as an unremarkable normal student there. And bear in mind…my HS is not only located in NYC, but also located just a few blocks from where one of the terrorist attacks on 9/11 occurred. Even so…this very news has prompted nothing but outrage for Ahmed against the Irving school district/principal and the local law enforcement by every alum who posted on the story itself. And the posters weren’t limited to one side of the spectrum…but also included several conservatives…including a retired Republican politician and Korean War vet who has been in combat.
“This is ironic considering you tend to be inclined to defend law enforcement and discount racial issues relevant in other threads where racial issues are an important factor”
I do bias towards law enforcement, particularly since I have a close family member who, in the line of duty, has suffered greatly at the end of a bad guy’s gun. I have a number of family members in law enforcement. People who have been in the military also tend to bias towards law enforcement, as they realize that the people doing that sort of job are not just mindless robots, but people with real feelings and honest fears. It is easier for people who do not have people they love in harms way to discount the fact that they are human, with the same love for life, personal difficulties and biases as anyone—just with a little more training on how to handle that. I am aware of my bias. As far as racial issues, do you mean the, “Hands up, don’t shoot one?” In the end, it didn’t really sound like the Michael Brown case was worthy of defending as a racist cop killing, was it?
Seems like, as always, it would be best to wait until all the details of this case to come out, to make a final opinion. Otherwise, we are really jumping on a couple of news reports (accurate or not), and our personal biases, when the story can change completely when everyone has their chance to speak. If they are allowed.
Not all folks who were in the military tend to give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt in situations of police excesses.
Some war veterans I knew who fought in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam felt the police excesses and in the Diallo case, the firing of 41 shots at a single man demonstrated extremely poor situational assessment skills, discipline and firearm proficiency. A few even went so far as to say they wouldn’t want someone like that fighting next to them for fear of being victims of “friendly fire” at the hands of such an individual. Some of them ended up serving decades as law enforcement officers in my old neighborhood. Then again, they came from generations where having “real feelings and honest fears” wouldn’t be regarded as a legit explanation and if anything, be regarded as a sign one lacked self-discipline and self-control necessary to be a good soldier/law enforcement officer. They would be the first ones to insist on retraining or if that didn’t work, booting the unsuited person out of combat arms/law enforcement.
I also have a few relatives who served in the military with some seeing combat as well. The older uncles especially tended to feel one shouldn’t allow one’s personal feelings/fears affect one’s performance on the job…whether in the military or in life in general. I don’t necessarily agree with the extremes they took it…especially with their kids…but that’s how they rolled and I respected the reasonings behind why they felt that way in the military context.
I am confused and would appreciate help with some FACTS on this case. I have not followed this story closely, and only now am hearing some details that make me question the boy’s motives.
I may be completely wrong, but I know cc folks will set me straight. I JUST WANT HELP WITH THE FACTS OF THIS CASE. NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANY POLITICAL STATEMENTS.
FIRST QUESTION…The “homemade” clock in question could have just been a store-bought clock that had its outside taken off to reveal the inner workings of the clock. IS THIS A FACT? Is the boy’s story that he actually BUILT this clock from scratch? How do we know it is actually a homemade clock?
If the boy did not MAKE the clock himself, then the storyline being pushed by the media is wrong (or at least misleading). If the family wants to manufacture a racist angle to stir up sympathy for muslims, this seems to be a good way to do it.
SECOND QUESTION…Why did the boy bring a clock to school? Was this for a class project? Has he been tinkering with stuff all along, or is this just out of the blue show up with a clock? Kids who make stuff all the time do get excited and want to share. How long has he attended this school, and does he have past examples of other projects he has done?
THIRD QUESTION…Why are we (as in social media reaction) ready to give this kid a full ride college scholarship? Even if he put the clock together himself from spare parts, what is so special about a clock? Why is this kid going to get to meet the President? (Well, I know why Obama wants to ride this publicity train, but really…What is so special about this kid?) I genuinely want to understand if this kid is some kind of genius, or if this is just media hype to try to balance the scales of him getting arrested?
I read on Facebook (so of course it must be true!) about a 16 yr old girl who invented a test for Ebola that gives accurate results in 30 minutes (instead of 12 hours) and doesn’t require continuous refrigeration. Now that is an invention worthy of being invited to the White House to meet the president. That’s the kid I want to get the full ride scholarship. What else is inside her mind just waiting to blossom in the coming years? And if the Ebola test invention is not true, I guess I should hear the truth about that as well.
Thank you in advance for helping me understand the FACTS of this situation.
I seriously doubt anyone on CC has the FACTS as to why Obama invited this kid to the White House. Or why “social media” wants to give him a scholarship. Whatever that even means.
@powercropper, 1) apparently the kid put the clock together from pre-existing components. 2) He said that he brought it to school to show his engineering teacher so that the teacher would know what he could do; ie, that he liked to tinker with machines and electronics 3) I have seen nothing in social media about giving the kid a “full-ride scholarship” anywhere. I did see an MIT professor of physics telling the kid that he was the kind of intellectually curious student they wanted at MIT (and Harvard, also her lama mater), and that he should keep on with his hobby and that if he visited MIT she would be happy to show him around. (She also made a pitch for studying physics. ) At no point did she promise he would get in or offer him a scholarship. Several other notable geeks, such as Mark Zuckerberg, also extended invitations to him. As someone else said above, geeks tend to respond actively to what they perceive as mistreatment of one of their own. As for your negative speculations about Obama’s motives, I stated earlier that I thought he was seizing this as a teachable moment to prevent the alienation of this and other young Muslim kids in our society. I think that was a smart thing to do.
To @busdriver11 and others, do not forget that the MAYOR of this town was the one who was recently making public statements about Muslims trying to establish sharia law there. To say that the atmosphere there is charged is probably an understatement.
) At no point did she promise he would get in or offer him a scholarship. Several other notable geeks, such as Mark Zuckerberg, also extended invitations to him. As someone else said above, geeks tend to respond actively to what they perceive as mistreatment of one of their own. As for your negative speculations about Obama’s motives, I stated earlier that I thought he was seizing this as a teachable moment to prevent the alienation of this and other young Muslim kids in our society. I think that was a smart thing to do.