Inventing While Muslim

There is a long history of xenophobia and racism in this country, that has come up time and again, and parties have catered to it. The GOP, for example, was founded in large part because slavery destroyed the old whig party (the fight over it), disaffected whigs who were against abolition moved over to the Democratic party (The whigs before this time were interestingly, very similar to the GOP of today, they had the southern planter class, they had some strength in the farm belt, and they had the well of industrialists). There were the nativists reacting to the first waves of immigration, that were catered to by political forces.

The south went to the democratic party for the obvious reason of the civil war, and especially reconstruction, so yes, the KKK and such could be associated with the Democrats, and it why for almost 100 years the south was solidly Democratic. The Democrats had a coalition, that was centered in big city machine politics,they also had their gentry (think FDR), and then they had what Mencken called the “KKK branch of the democratic party”, which included the southern dixiecrats, and also included the farm belt populists and what today we would call the religious right (think of Williams Jennings Bryan, who was both). Like what usually happens, shifts happened because of major events, when the civil rights era started, you had Truman integrating the armed forces (interestingly, the Supreme Court shift was done by Eisenhower, that ruled in Brown vs Ed and later civil rights rulings, and Eisenhower used troops to enforce segregation orders), and then of course the civil rights laws of the 60’s and some things swapped. The old farm populist/southern block moved over to the GOP, while some of the traditional republicans in areas like the Northeast and California shifted to the Democrats (or independent, but tend to vote Democrat).

On the other hand, the history doesn’t really matter, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out who is catering to the nativist/xenophic/racist contingent. It has been primary GOP politicians who have been yangering about being ‘overwhelmed’ by illegal immigrants, it has primarily been GOP politicians stirring up fear of “Sharia Law” and the fear that all Muslims are terrorists, it is an old tradition, fear mongering to get votes, and it is getting traction.Donald Trump comes out and basically calls Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists, and his poll numbers go up, he talks about building a ‘giant wall’ and his numbers soar. Fear mongering goes both ways, there are Democratic candidates who will say that any GOP candidate wants to turn the country into a Christian theocracy, which isn’t fair to those who aren’t like that (for whatever he was, Romney was not planning to do that, nor would Kasich or Bush; on the other hand, the Ted Cruz’s of the world, Huckabee, etc, not an invalid fear). The GOP has used fear and scapegoating to get votes, in the 70’s they told white, blue collar workers that their jobs were being lost to affirmative action hiring of women and minorities (rather than the truth, that those jobs were fleeing to cheaper labor markets, like down south, or increasingly, overseas).

As far as Shariah law goes, what often is brought up is in civil law, not criminal or anything else. It is true that Islam as a religion is very different than Christianity or Judaism or other faiths, in Islam the political and the religious is not seperated, Islamic law has very strict rules about things that are not in other faiths (or at least followed), in terms of things like how loans happen, how divorce happens and so forth. Often, what is called “Shariah Law” has been attempts to allow for example, in contract law, the option (note the word “Option”), for two Muslims to draw up a contract under Islamic principles and have it be binding, they would choose it, if it were between a muslim and a non muslim it wuld only be valid if the non muslim agreed to it. For those who see this as being fearful, financial firms already often Shariah compliant loans and services, to cater to the Muslim community, and it doesn’t change how you or I deal with the same institution. Yes, there have been morons, there was a judge in NJ who in a divorce case ruled that the woman claiming grounds of spousal abuse were invalid, because under the law from where they came, which was some variant on Islamic Law, it was not considered abuse, so therefore he could not grant a divorce based on those standards…and it was totally reversed on appeal and the appelate judges in no uncertain terms told the judge he was an idiot (in legalese), that their home law had no bearing in the US, and shouldn’t have. If a Muslim couple gets divorced in the US, Islamic law has nothing to do with it, it happens under the terms of US law. If they want their divorce recognized in their religion, that is a different matter, but in civil law, it would have no meaning.

The other problem, as Donna pointed out, is that there is no one 'Shariah Law", every country, every sect of Islam, has differing rules, and given that we have Muslims from all over the world, whose would rule? One thing for all those afraid of Muslims wanting to impose Sharia law, I work among more than a few people who are Muslim, who are Shia and Sunni and Sufi, and one of the things the fearful set forgets is that when people immigrate, for the most part, they do so to get away from what they experienced at home, the sectarian violence, being the Sunni minority in a Shia country, being Sufi (whom both Sunnis and Shiites think are blasphemous), they immigrated to get away from that, so why would they want “Shariah” law imposed, when they experienced the horrible face of that from where they came from? The other thing is, you are seeing first generation immigrants, Muslim immigration is relatively recent, and when it hits the next generation it is no different than other groups, the next generations are not as observant and even less likely to want that kind of crap.

@consolation is correct that times have changed and it seems suspicious that you would purposely omit these facts.”

I did not omit anything. I was pointing out the omission of another poster about that time period. they were talking about bad political movements from 19/20 century and they omitted the big one. so I am not sure what you are saying? I omitted something in my response to an omission that is like something Yogi Berra would say.( I loved that guy)

musicprint “There is a long history of xenophobia and racism in this country” perhaps you are confusing problems of a specific country with human nature.
which country is open and tolerant?
saudi arabia, mexico, rwanda, turkey, hungry,iran.burma…russia, greece, honduras, pakistan, india, france???

@Consolation

One reason why I make references to US history is precisely because some commenters defending the actions of the local authorities against Ahmed are demonstrating an appallingly ignorant and overly simplistic view of Muslims which factors into the predisposition to assume Ahmed, his family, and/or the local Muslim community must have done something wrong.

This has dangerous parallels to other shameful historical cases of the entire or a critical mass of American society scapegoating what they perceived to be threatening minorities du jour. This case is unfortunately, the latest example of this form of scapegoating by an ignorant and fearful paranoid segment of the mainstream American public

Even after there have been several posted links to reports clearly showing the local leadership and the school district’s documented recent actions have demonstrated they harbor prejudicial views against the Muslim community and their religion.

And this continues despite several postings of links on this very thread to reports clearly showing the local leadership and the school district’s documented recent actions have demonstrated they harbor prejudicial views against the Muslim community and their religion

From that documented history, it’s highly unlikely that ignorance and prejudicial views didn’t played key parts in the actions of local law enforcement and educational admins in the Irving School district.

Especially when such ignorance and prejudicial views were clearly demonstrated at the very top of the local leadership.

Well, I’m done with this thread. You guys can fight it out.

“I think it speaks volumes that the kid’s father requested that he be “re-handcuffed” for a photo.”

I’d like to see you post an actual source if you’re going to make such a statement as if it’s a fact. All the article you linked to says is that this “reportedly” happened, without even giving the original source. Hardly enough to support what you’re claiming.

We can only go by what has been “reported” to have happened because the father refuses to sign off on releasing the official police report. What’s he hiding? He doesn’t seem to have a problem with publicity form his side of the story but he won’t let the facts be reported.

http://townhall.com/columnists/kyleshideler/2015/09/22/irving-mayor-ahmed-mohameds-family-blocking-release-of-records-obama-tweeted-support-even-before-clock-pic-released-n2055545/page/full

This thread is proving the social scientists right. http://www.journalism.org/2014/10/21/political-polarization-media-habits/

I would no more take my news from Townhall.com than others would take it from NPR.

Peace.

LeftofPisa, most news or communication outlets have a slant. That’s why it’s important to seek news from a variety of sources. No matter what our individual persuasion, if we only seek news from providers that agree with us, we will miss the things that may not fit our own narrative and might cause us to do real thinking about opinions we hold. Of course, reading something doesn’t make it true, but if we find something noteworthy on the “other side” we can do our own research and determine its veracity. Media bias isn’t the most insidious in what is reported, it’s what is chosen to be excluded.

It seems you’re assuming police reports are the complete unbiased official record of a given even.

Hardly considering it is the police offcers’/police account of events and thus, usually biased in their favor.

There are far too many cases of police reports omitting critical information, whether deliberate or not. Worse, there’s also the possibility police officers could have included outright lies to perpetuate coverups or otherwise avoid punishment for their own misconduct.

One recent case of the latter:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/29/the_sam_dubose_police_report_is_full_of_falsehoods_from_ray_tensing_s_colleagues.html

These factors are why well-run courts don’t consider them the last definitive word without checking corroborating evidence from other sources.

I would like to see the police reports to see if they contain statements from the teachers and administration.

I guess since they involve a minor, they are not public records.

Interesting your assumption that people who only selectively read Townhall or NPR etc. are actually posting on CC. Have you asked the other posters directly if they are like you and ignore media they may not agree with ideologically?

I have ignored this story because it is a total hoax story just like "Hands up, don’t shoot,"Jackie of UVA, and countless others. The teenager did not invent a clock, did not create a clock, and did not design a clock; he simply disassembled, re-organized, and re-cased a professionally manufactured clock that anyone could buy.

In the world of writing, his actions would be called plagiarism. In the world of science, it would be called fraud and stealing someone else’s work. However, in the PC world of fake narratives, it is called inventing. Wow, how far the standards of intellect have fallen. Go figure - PC-ness has really dumbed down the culture and standards.

How do you know that “reported” fact comes from the police, 3scoutsmom? The article doesn’t even claim that it comes from cops speaking off the record… Where exactly was it “reported”? Anywhere? It’s entirely possible that someone simply made it up. Like the sharia law nonsense. As for Town Hall, if you printed it out it wouldn’t be fit to wrap fish in. It’s one of the most disgustingly and reprehensibly homophobic and transphobic websites on the Internet – with columnists who never hesitate to make stuff up – so I wouldn’t believe anything they say about anything.

@awcntdb the story is not a “hoax” unless you maintain that the kid was not questioned at length by the police without his parents, and that he was not taken away in handcuffs and fingerprinted.

That is what is at the core of people’s outrage. The degree to which the kid assembled, de-assembled, or re-assembled the clock from components and from where he obtained those components is irrelevant. The kid likes to tinker. He tinkered. He may think of this as “inventing,” which of course it isn’t really. He’s a 14 yr old kid. Maybe someday he will in fact “invent” something.

Even the police do not deny the relevant details.

^^The ‘hoax’ meme is the current talking points being blasted out on the right wing sites and blogs, plus attacks on Ahmed and his family.

Exactly, he’s a tinkerer. But in our current environment, he can only be a mistreated inventor or a fraudulent hoaxster.

It is reasonable to believe that if the father asked the police to ‘re-handcuff’ the kid it would be noted in the police report and the fact that the father will not release the police report to the press and his father is not afraid of press conferences leads me to believe that it is a credible statement. This statement was in the the Investors Business News.

If you think the Town Hall report is ‘made up’ and the father did in fact release the police report please post evidence of that. I’m not saying that the report is 100% unbiased either but so far we’ve really only heard the family’s side of the story.

I don’t see what homophobia has to do with this topic. You might to start your own thread if you want to rant on that topic.

I don’t think either of those things are true. I think he is a clueless 14 year-old boy. I think he was genuinely interested in his device and brought it in for that purpose. At the same time, I think he got into trouble by not giving it to a teacher for safekeeping during other classes. The school had rules it had to follow, the family, probably having been exposed to bias in other ways, was surely looking for it and over-reacted. There are special interests on both extremes that are salivating over this, so it takes on a life of its own.

Please, 3scoutsmom. You’re just arguing in a circle now by citing the Investors Business News article. All that article says is that your assertion about re-handcuffing was “reported.” It doesn’t say a single thing about where or by whom it was reported, and you’ve just admitted that your idea that it came from the police report is based entirely on your so-called “reasonable belief.” So where is your evidence again? Where was it “reported”? Do you have any other source that isn’t pure hearsay? It’s not my burden to “prove” that something didn’t happen; it’s your burden to provide an actual source for your statement – presented as fact – that it did. You’re the one who brought it up, not me.

The fact that you describe as a “rant” my pointing out that Town Hall is an inherently unreliable source because of its notorious homophobia and transphobia (I didn’t bother mentioning Islamophobia, because that’s self-evident) simply shows where you’re coming from.