<p>This question should be addressed by China.</p>
<p>@Marian, #11, I think it helps with the He/She dilemma if you note that “He” is pronounced more like “Huh,” as in: She’s 16. Huh.</p>
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<p>Actually, it wasn’t raised to 16 until 1997 and one reason was the youth of Dominique Moceanu who was coached by Bela (it’s kind of amazing all the huffing and puffing he’s doing about the Chinese girls) from the age of 10! She participated in the '96 Olympics at age 14, not turning 15 til the following month. As much as I don’t agree with falsifying the ages of these young Chinese girls, I think that the fact that U.S. kids were facing the same ‘dangers’ to their bodies, and not all that long ago, makes it a little disingenuous to be complaining now.</p>
<p>Dominique’s story was definitely a sad one. I remember when she visited my children’s elementary school and performed stunts and tricks for the kids in the cafeteria. Very sweet girl…but her eyes never left her trainer. It was supposed to be a very informal affair, but she seemed not able to make a move without instruction. After she left Bela, she trained at my d’s gym until construction on her own massive gym was completed. That overblown facility was built on the advice of the adults in her life. It was located about 2 or 3 miles from our home…and almost immediately went out of business (I don’t think it ever even went INTO business) leaving her broke. Of course, most of the disasters seemed to occur after she left Bela. Hard to say if she would have been better off staying with him or not.</p>
<p>(And you don’t know how lovely it is to see Bela Karolyi on your TV ten times a day selling temperupedic mattressess for Mattress Mac…)</p>
<p>Also…no doubt in my mind, gymnastics is a sport that lends itself to abuse. The connection between coach and athlete is as strong, if not stronger than that of child and parent. We saw this even in cheerleading…parents subjugating themselves to coaches. The worst competitive team (not in skill), on which my daughter was placed on was a Senior Open team. 17 - 19 year old bases flying 12 year old ex-gymnasts. The flyers were tiny allowing for dangerously high and complicated basket tosses. The advantage was the little ones were not afraid. And their little bodies could be contorted easily in to near-split scorpions and other stunts. The disadvantage was often those girls were exposed to inappropriate behavior and language by the older girls. I served as team mom for that open team and hated every minute of it. Couldn’t understand why the younger girls’ parents permitted their involvement. Complete abdication of the decision process to the coaches. Sigh…but I digress.</p>
<p>It’s completely disingenuous to be complaining. Keeping 14 year-olds out of the Olympics doesn’t protect them. They will still be caught in the same system, which will probably have been abusing them since they were 8 or 9. It just means that we won’t have to have it in our faces at the Olympics (but it turns out we do anyway).</p>
<p>On the other hand, the fact that Bela Karolyi pioneered this kind of abuse obviously qualifies him to understand the kind of advantage a 14-year-old would often have over a 19-year-old, and why people would cheat. It IS cheating, even if the rule is cosmetic.</p>
<p>Why do the girls ages an issue after the competition and not before? Certainly everyone are aware who will be competing and can file their protest before the game began.</p>
<p>Proofing the actual age may be difficult. The acutal birth of girls in the rural area may not be documented until years later because of the one child only policy. </p>
<p>There are a lot of accusation that China is cheating. Is there any proof that the Chinese Government order the falsification of documents or are these the action of a few gready coach and invividuals? Does the dosing a US athlete equal to everyone in the US team use dope to enhance thier performance? and does a few corrupt congress make the whole US a corrupt nation?</p>
<p>The Chinese Government issued the passport and that make them guilty? How many background check and verification of authentic documents are made when you request for a US passport?</p>
<p>There seems to be a lot of accusation without facts and are based on observation and possible incorrect data. If my neighbor buys an expensive car that I don’t think he can afford, do I assume he stole it or obtained thru some illegal activity?</p>
<p>The problem dav is that there was pre-existing documentation with the younger ages. They can’t both be right.</p>
<p>I am inclined to believe what some one posted above, that the Chinese culture currently does not see it as any big deal. Yes, every one used to compete younger girls, including Bela, but now they cannot, so no one should. I would bet Bela could find some nice 12-14 year olds who would have been great on the team! Wasn’t Nastia too young to compete in the Athens games because of this rule, so she had to stick around for 4 more years?</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s any secret that Bela wishes we could still use 14 year olds. He has said the age restriction should be lifted. But his protest is that if the US has to follow a rule that at least he thinks is ridiulous, everyone else should also.</p>
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<p>Of course, one can expect the data to be incorrect when the people in charge of issuing official documentation are the ones organizing the duplicity. </p>
<p>Would one not expect to see such a famous athlete being able to provide dozens --if not hundreds-- of pictures showing her with peers her own age? It is not that hard to fake being 16 when 14, but a lot harder to pretend to be four when actually two years old. </p>
<p>However, none of this will really matter. The IOC will simply accept the government documents as proof of age, and close the case to avoid further fingerpointing to China. In a few years, the athletes will probably admit to the fraud, just as the one Chinese athlete who just did that for a prior Olympic Games. </p>
<p>In a few weeks nobody will even remember the name of those purported 16 years old, unless they lose another milk tooth. In the meantime, an asterisk a la Bonds should be played to the 2008 results.</p>
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<p>Different culture and different views on sports and … standardized testing.</p>
<p>Yes, at the time of the Athens Olympics, the folks at WOGA were saying that Nastia was - at that time - better than Carly. She was old enough to compete as a Senior the next year, won two national titles, was injured and then eclipsed by the next young thing (Shawn). I guess that is why it is so right that she beat Shawn (my favorite) in the all around. She toughed it out for those four years. Under different rules, she would have competed in Athens. Maybe she and Carly would have gone 1 - 2.</p>
<p>As an American, this stereotypical thread tells me two things:</p>
<ol>
<li>No-one in this thread has been to China/Japan/Korea and seen 16-17 year olds there.</li>
<li>We’re fast to critique others but are not as fast to critique ourselves (e.g. serious doping issues in our athletes).</li>
</ol>
<p>I assure you that to others outside of America, including Argentina, South Korea, Japan, this whole thing looks like the USA is being a sore loser. If any of you think China is the only cheater (if they are at all), I’m sorry to say, but that is just the naive attitude which has appeared in American population as commonplace. Open your eyes folks, if all America has is complaining about underage athletes because they are losing the gold medal count badly, then that is just embarrassing to me.</p>
<p>The issue of the athletes ages came up LONG before the competition began. It’s not sour grapes…and it should have been reconciled before the events began…as the issue was clearly brought up prior to the Olympics competitions beginning.</p>
<p>I’m not defending those who are dopers either…and I don’t think anyone else here is either.</p>
<p>Why shouldn’t we demand a FAIRER competition?</p>
<p>When Marion Jones was stripped of her medals, I was very happy (although, I have to confess that I was also sad for her for making that dumb decision) because we have to teach people to be honest.</p>
<p>I don’t see this as sour grapes, being honest is far more important than winning medals, the Olympics should not be about winning at all cost.</p>
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Blatant cheating by forging official documents should be punished. Simple as that.</p>
<p>Actually, I highly doubt Russia, UK or Ukraine, or most of the rest of the world, are calling the US sore losers because:</p>
<ol>
<li> Assuming the Chinese gymnasts are indeed underage, athletes from the above countries would have medaled if the underage girls had not competed.</li>
<li> Americans don’t consider our athletes losers, so what is there to be sore about? We took home 8 medals, including Team silver, All Around gold and Beam gold after all.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>But… if our athletes WERE entitled to Team gold, Vault bronze and Unevens gold; and other athletes were denied just rewards for their hardwork and sacrifice, then something should be done. </p>
<p>Btw…my dh is down in SA this week…everyone he has encountered has been equally concerned that a cheat has occurred. (Weellll… I don’t think Chavez is concerned…but you know what I mean…)</p>
<p>lol, QuantMech!</p>
<p>jmilton, as thumper said, the issue of age came up before the competition began. Also, you have NO idea where people on this thread have or haven’t been, who they have or haven’t seen.</p>
<p>The subject of the thread is the investigation of He Kexin’s age. If you want to start a thread on doping, please do.</p>
<p>Again, the presumptions that “China is cheating”. We’re too fast to agree with all the commentary over NBC olympics and news media. Wonderful. </p>
<p>I’m not Asian, but traveling to China and Japan and Korea, you will know that 16-18 year olds can look different than our sugar inflated children fed with second-hand steriods filled burgers.</p>
<p>Be objective folks. I don’t care where you’ve been just have an open mind.</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is why so much protesting? This thing needs to be properly investigated. China needs to answer questions about the conflicting documents and quit trying to lob the ball back in our court. It’s a very savvy move…deflection. But it’s also insulting. Legitimate questions deserve legitimate and truthful answers.</p>