<p>You see, if always good if you dont see things at face value. If you set aside your anti-Semitic labelling for a moment, you will realize that Ahmedinejad shares the views of many historians that the Holocaust is exaggerated (I personally do not agree with this). Of course, the way he expressed his feelings is stupid, but he did make valid points. For instance, he did make a valid point about a Jewish state being carved off of Germany.</p>
<p>Also, if you think Ahmedinejad is a nutcase, then under the same reasoning Ariel Sharon is also a nutcase (in addition to fascist). For instance:</p>
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<p>So who’s the nutcase now? Quit the double standard.</p>
<p>“Isnt it ironic that you call him a “jerk” for plain rhetoric, while your own president makes snide remarks insulting Islam?? Most of us really dislike the Unites States for always stepping into our affairs. We realize the injustice of the Zionist regime (while people like you blame third parties), and never do we want to live in a state such as “modern day Iraq,” where Western values replace Islamic ones.”</p>
<p>First of all, I think the “jerk” is quite a bit more intelligent than our own President. Not that this particularly matters. I am aware that the immediate cause of the fall of the Shah was Jimmy Carter going on Iranian National TV on New Year’s Eve and toasting the Shah for his “commitment to human rights”, even as Carter was funding the training of torturers at Fort Benning. Having worked for the U.S. government in Iran back in the '70s, I have published on this subject. Putting the U.S. nose where it doesn’t belong isn’t a “Republican” thing particularly, not with Bill Clinton knowingly causing the death of a half million children in Iraq.</p>
<p>I also agree with Rabbi David Wise that Zionism is a betrayal of the commandments of Judaism, though I doubt you’d find that of much interest. Nonetheless, Israel is not going away anytime soon, and the fact that the Balfour Declaration equally promised Palestine to both Jews and Arabs to me suggests, as does realpolitik, that these two peoples can - and will - find a way to live together in peace. Frankly, I think had the Israelis been smart (and better long-term thinkers), and the Palestinians less interested in trophies, they could have figured that out two decades ago. (And, yes, Ariel Sharon is a jerk.)</p>
<p>As to how folks in other nations choose to live? Well, that’s what democracy is all about. The election of Ahmadinejad was a natural consequence of Iranians feeling (and I think rightfully) under siege, but his ridiculous rhetoric (which is mostly constructed for internal consumption) doesn’t help matters much.</p>
<p>So… Ahmadinejad believes the Holocaust is a myth and historians feel it was exaggerated. Alrighty then.</p>
<p>Wonder what happened to all my dead relatives, their friends, citizens of their entire village and city…all of whom we thought were exterminated at Auschwitz or Treblinka or maybe Belzec, now that I realize that nutcases believe that the Holocaust was an exaggerated myth. They must have simply disappeared. Strange. Of course, I do have one painting that was slashed, when the Nazis went looking for jewels, but we don’t have anything else. It was all stolen by the Nazis, every bit of it. But I know, you think that Israelis are just like Nazis.</p>
<p>Disgusting. This deserves an alert too.</p>
<p>I’d like to see a source, an unbiased news source, for those quotes attributed to Sharon. I have no love lost for the man, but would like a source for the quotes. Thank you.</p>
<p>The last quote attributed to Sharon above (". . . kill as many Arabs as necessary . . . ") comes from an interview Amos Oz published in 1982 with an unnamed “official”. Oz and Sharon have both denied that the interviewee was Sharon, but the quote is attributed to Sharon in many anti-Semitic websites.</p>
<p>Not that I love(d) Sharon. I don’t. And that quote is apparently a legitimate quote from someone in the Israeli government in 1982, which is shameful (but needless to say never represented official Israeli policy).</p>
<p>This thread is on a subject that many have strong opinions on that differ from others’ strong opinions. </p>
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<p>Let’s see, the conservatives want to shut out the liberals. The liberals want the conservatives out of power as well. They both have their radio and TV shows to spout their respective views. They both have good coverage in most of the traditional media. They both have access to nice discussion boards like this to spout their views. They both don’t want their children to “go to the dark side”, whichever side that is. They both field candidates a let the people choose. That sounds like a wonderful system of checks and balances. </p>
<p>Now, let’s look at the original topic here, a totalitarian dictator that wants to eliminate all learning from his country so he can control the people completely. No media coverage, no dissenting opinions. Women can’t participate. Anybody that thinks that is in anyway equivalent is so far out in left field that a reasonable conversation is wasted.</p>
<p>I agree that there is no difference between state sanctioned killing, torturing, dismissing etc of Iranian professors for being “liberal” and “modern” (not the same liberalism in America" and disapporval about the infestation of American universities with professors who deny the Holacaust in engineering classes among others (Northwestern, U of Colorado) and claim Bush caused 9/11(University of Wisconsin), which definitely is not a far fetched claim. Also a bunch of idiots wanting ranting about killing some racist and dumb professors is actually the secret work of the fascist George Bush. May god avenge the terrible lives we live because of him.</p>
<p>I agree with Walmart about the iranian pres, he is def a great guy. You know there is nothing like a man honest enough to deny the holocaust. He is visionary and an artistic man as well. Look at that cartoon exhbition he established. He just really wanted to further arts in Iran. He is a straight shooter, there is nothing like a man who pays and supports the intentional murder of little kids. The world is a safe place because of his presidancy. Finally someone to balance the evil Bush. Praise be to Allah</p>
<p>Well let us see, we have state sanctioned teachings of Intelligent Design, we have states prohibiting/infinging on women’s the right to choose…shall I go on? Afghanistan was necessary, Iraq was the by product of binary mind’s crusade.</p>
Bandit, you make a good point. I’m a “Red-Stater” at heart, living in a “Blue State” and sending one son to an Eastern, liberal college. What fun would there be if everyone thought the same way? Discussing differences in opinion help people to understand their own values and opinions. While I seldom agree with the Liberal Left (except on guns – see Hunting thread!) I hope my kids explore the political spectrum. They shouldn’t turn out to be conservative based on parental input only – I want them to analyze the data and arrive at an intelligent pov. </p>
<p>That said, I don’t understand how anyone can reasonably compare the freedoms we have in this country to the lack of those in Iran. I know some wonderful, well-educated Iranian-Americans. I’m sure there’s a reason they live here.</p>
<p>Furthermore more I would like to add that I cannot wait till my next vacation to Iran. I especially enjoyed praying at the Tehranian synagogue. The Iranian pres even came out and applauded my relgiosity despite it being Judaism. Afterwards, I held a rally calling for some social reform in Iran. The government there was so kind to provide me with a permit to protest it…You guys are idiots. No rational person can compare Iran to America. It disgusts me that I am living in the same country as those of you who try to draw any parallel, you people should go and live in Iran cause the true americans dont want you here.</p>
<p>"That said, I don’t understand how anyone can reasonably compare the freedoms we have in this country to the lack of those in Iran. I know some wonderful, well-educated Iranian-Americans. I’m sure there’s a reason they live here. "</p>
<p>I wouldn’t take that too far. The majority of Iranians choose to live where they are, in case you haven’t noticed (despite the fact that there is an awful lot more money to be made here, unless you are an oilman, in which case you’ve already made common cause with your blood-brothers in Texas.)</p>
<p>Mini are you stupid? Seriously? Many, in fact most people prefer to live in free societies. And the Iran, despite what you think, is not a free society. Its the same kind of idiocy that claimed that Russians living in the Soviet Union were happy there and lived there from choice. Maybe you don’t understand but it isnt very easy to move from Iran, it would be difficult getting an exit visa. Maybe if you didnt hate america with such a passion you would not think or say the things you do. What the hell kind of person wants to live in a country where all of his freedoms are limited.</p>
<p>“Its the same kind of idiocy that claimed that Russians living in the Soviet Union were happy there and lived there from choice.”</p>
<p>You know, the majority of the Russians WERE happy in the USSR. For all sorts of reasons. The matter of happiness is not that simple. To really understand Russians or Iranians, or Chinese, you need to BE one of them.</p>
<p>Well you are wrong about the majority of russians being happy in the soviet Union. That may possibly be the most absurd statement I have ever heard in my life. Look at the mass exodus from the Soviet Union in the yrs leading up to its destruction and after its destruction. MILLIONS left. You really dont no what ur talking about to say that Russians were happy in the Soviet Union, they really had nothing to be happy about. Use ur brain no people like to live in captivity. And Russian people are really no different from any other people, including chinese, and iranians, they may have a different culture but theyt sure as hell have the same emotions and they sure as hell prefer to live in a free society. Dont you think its a little wrong to think of YOURSELF as a person who desires freedom but russians or iranians on the other hand love not having rites</p>