that is so much money, and I dont think it would be worth it for just an education at Cornell
architecture is one of the highest unemployed majors out there, do not let him do it, its not worth it.
Keep in mind that architecture has been talked about because it was especially hard hit during the Great Recession with the housing and construction problems. If you break down other fields enough you can find degrees that you might not have expected to be on the unemployment line.
Civil Engineers were impacted as were Planning Engineers.
My dd’s friend attends USC and is studying architecture and she also knows that there are no jobs out there.
To answer your question, yes $175K is too much debt to take on for the “name” of the school.
Unfortunately, your son won’t be earning enough to repay the debt and that is IF he can find a job.
You can see some post graduate data
http://www.acsa-arch.org/resources/data-resources/architecture-graduate-survey
“May 2014 … The median wage for architects (licensed and non-licensed) in the United States is $36/hour, or just over $74,000/year. At the top of the pay scale, 10% of architects earn $57/hour or more, while 90% of architects earn at least $22/hour.”
Also see Cornell AAP career data at
http://www.career.cornell.edu/resources/surveys/postgraduate.cfm
I would not let my kids borrow more than $50K for undergraduate education.
Income is not the sole factor for financial aid. Assets also play a big part.
Except for a few superstars, architects make lousy money-- how will son be able to repay such a huge amt?
@momrath Can you chime in and let us know if Architects are having a hard time finding jobs? Thanks.
This is an unfortunate outcome. Did you run the net price calculator before choosing Cornell for ED? Was there a discrepancy between your NPC EFC and your actual EFC?
I think it’s important to remember that the responsibility for this loan is on the parents’ shoulders not the son’s. The son may have the best of intentions to repay his parents, but technically and legally the loans will be in the parents’ name. You need to think long and hard about how YOU feel about absorbing so much debt, regardless of your son’s ability to repay you.
Even with a BArch from a prestigious school like Cornell, most architects at top firms will eventually get an MArch. Funding for the MArch is very difficult to come by, which means even more debt. Having a major debt burden will also limit his options for summer internships and super low paying jobs at super high profile firms which are a sorry fact of life in architecture.
As for job climate, the recent experience of my son (MArch Cornell) and his classmates, both MArch and BArch, is that the job market is fairly good right now, all over the country. Firms are hiring and jobs are stable. Five years ago, this wasn’t the case, so the situation is clearly cyclical.
Mid-$50’s is on the high side for an entry level architect with a BArch. Salaries begin to climb once the licensing process is complete, which takes 3-4 years, if an MArch is layered on or if he moves into a management position at the firm. The cold, hard truth, however, is that except for the superstars, architects have no where near the earning potential of other professionals with similar pricy educations. They can make a comfortable living, yes, but it’s not a get rich quick scheme by any means.
Does your son have any other early acceptances? You’re in a tricky position as you’ll have to either accept or decline Cornell’s offer before he receives his full acceptances. What other schools has he applied to? Hopefully there are some State schools and co-ops among them. My worry would be at privates that your EFC will be more or less the same.
My advice to your son would be to choose the best BArch program with the lowest cost, do well, take advantage of internship and networking opportunities and then target the most prestigious school for his MArch. He may have to bit the bullet and absorb considerable debt for the MArch, but at least he won’t be saddled with undergraduate debt as well.
That $175k debt will not be the son’s to pay. He is not the one who borrows the money. It is the parent’s debt. I would not lend a kid that kind of money on his promise to make payments. There is a story on here a few months back where the parents have lost their home due to the compounded interest from their daughter’s $100k nursing degree. The daughter died but the debt lives on.
holy… $hit. please, don’t incur that mortgage debt to attend a college. that is just insane. with 7% interest, you’re looking at nearly 10k/year debt interest that gets added each year after graduation. your child will likely end up in your basement after college, barely able to afford food with the 40k architect job after taxes and loan payments, if your child can get a job at all.
as an alumnus of cornell, i enjoyed it but wouldn’t attend it for more than 50k total debt.
Still, the question remains…why a university that “meets 100% financial need” would come up with that large EFC. It means you have adequate income/assets and you are not willing to contribute to his education, or there is a mistake somewhere in what you reported or what they calculated. Once again, a school that claims to meet financial needs (with minimal loans) does not expect a family to take $175 k loan (which everyone agrees is too much for a BA in arch).
I don’t know. You say you have NO money. Do you have assets? If it was an only child and a lifelong dream I’d encouraged, I might sell my house, majorly downsizing to my old lady condo and try to use that house equity money for college. But that would be if you don’t have other kids to finish raising and assuming you have a lot of equity.
If you absolutely have to take on that amount of debt, then no, I wouldn’t do it. It will be an albatross that will significantly affect the quality of his life. Architecture isn’t exactly a hot field. He might not find a job at all.
http://www.stratagee.com/resources/efc_quick_reference/1213_efc_quick_reference.html
This is a little dated but it shows if you have an AGI of 125k - your EFC is roughly 25k. So his EFC is a little higher probably due to his other assets such as his business.
So it looks like the EFC calculation is not the issue. Instead, the real issue here is they are asking if a 175k loan is reasonable? College is usually not free and you can either save for it or pay for it as you go or get a loan. At this point its a personal choice if they want to get a loan or not.
Momrath suggested state schools but I’m not sure that helps either because here in NJ, Rutgers costs almost 32k a year (tuition/room/board/fees) which is practically the same price as his Cornell offer.
Everyone already agrees that $175 k loan is excessive. No one is disputing that. A more curious issue is why someone with 35- 55k EFC has "NO money"to contribute. I agree it’s burdensome for middle class, because I’m living that with 2 in college. But NO money? Come on.
Well it may be excessive or not depending on the situation.
I mean that is what it cost to attend college - the OP should have known that. If he chose not to save and postpone the payments, then no the loan isn’t excessive. I mean that is a personal choice how the OP wants to pay for it.
However, if the OP did not plan on paying any of it then that is a different discussion. He should have discussed that with his son up front and explained that he would have had to pay for his own education. In that case, he could have looked for schools where he could have gotten full scholarships or large merit offers. Obviously, he wouldn’t have applied ED to Cornell if he knew this.
So it is up to the OP to decide if he is going to pay for it or not.
my kids gave up top schools (we were same boat as you when it came to getting aid)
so they would not have debt and are working with kids who went to the top
schools (MIT, cal tech, John Hopkins, RPI). They are engineers. I wouldn’t take that kind of loan out for architecture. A family member is a well known retired architect and I know he would say it was crazy. He had his own firm and hired architects. School didn’t matter but what you did mattered. Having a dream now at that price would mean less dreams in the future. Debt will own you and chain you from future choice and needs.
Architecture’s a tough nut to crack financially. As @NewJersey17 noted, not all State U’s are low cost – or even offer the BArch for that matter. If your family doesn’t have adequate savings or qualify for need based aid, or if your high school performance doesn’t merit merit aid, then you really have no choice but to borrow if you want to practice architecture, either with an undergraduate degree or the MArch. Schools with co-op programs offer some respite, but often not enough to graduate debt-free.
It’s a dilemma.