Is a prestigious undergraduate degree worth it?

College Search & Lists
21

The short answer is no. Especially if you can get into a quality state university, and UW Madison is one of those.

Four years at Madison, without any financial aid, is currently about $110K in state. Four years at Georgetown or similar is $300K+, and likely $325K by the time your graduate. Think what you could do with the extra $200K. Go to an elite law school, for example. Or if you decide not to go to law school after graduation (and that happens, as it did with me), maybe you get an MBA (again, like I did), or you go right into the workforce, $200K richer.

If you decide to go to law school, being in Madison, you will have access to politics at the state level at the Capitol, and may have less competition getting an internship than you would in DC. Also, my best friend from high school was married to a top patent attorney making half a million a year at a large firm. She went undergrad to a regional state school, not even top ranked. Her law school was Top 20, but she became well sought after based on the fact she had her engineering and law degrees at first, and then her work experience, not her school’s ranking.

I suggest you read the book by Frank Bruni, “Where you go is not who you will be”, which makes a strong case for not defining yourself by your diploma. Lots of people go to less well know, lower ranked schools and do very well. The Atlantic in 2014 published an article on which factors are most important in hiring on recent grads. Look at where college reputation is located (hint: the very bottom). Your internships and employment during college are more important. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/08/the-thing-employers-look-for-when-hiring-recent-graduates/378693/

I will leave you with this. Last week, my friends and I, all of us University of Michigan grads, a Top 5 public university, got together. We discussed if it matters where you go to school for undergrad. All three agreed it doesn’t, especially with the high cost. Save your money for grad school. If you want to splurge then, that’s a better investment.

22

Let’s not forget the difference between numbers and percentage, smaller schools send less applicants but get more admitted, huge schools may show good numbers accepted but more apply and get rejected so actually lower percentage. If you’ll compare numbers for UCLA and Pomona or UT and Rice or UM Amherst and Amherst, you’ll always get false high results.

23

Once you get past the two most selective programs, Yale and Stanford, admission to the remaining law schools is really about GPA and LSAT scores. Yes, even Harvard Law. Such is the power of the USNWR law school ranking and its importance given to those measures.

Where you went for undergrad matters little, and law school is considerably less ‘holistic’ than undergrad admissions.

24

Speaking as a law school grad, I’ll say attending your state school will not hurt your chances of getting into law school (and I would say is increasingly seen as a smart move by the most motivated of students!). As many said above, your stats are very important. LSAT is important. And your “package” is important - courses you took, did you challenge yourself, your grades, your work/internship experiences, your likelihood of making it through and succeeding at law school. And I’d agree with many of the others posters - if you know you want to attend law school, saving money is huge (as others said above, law school is $$$). And finally, I’d recommend you take good persuasive writing courses in undergrad, especially any legal writing courses. Good luck!

25

Wisconsin should be great preparation for law school. It’s a terrific undergraduate school and having access to a strong law school right there might give you an opportunity to test the waters somehow and make sure that’s what you want to do. I graduated from a state school in New Jersey and went on to Yale Law School. That was a while ago, but I am sure the same basic principles apply.

26

This represents a substantive aspect that can distinguish undergraduate educational environments, and it appears that colleges whose graduates perform well in law school matriculation tend to emphasize writing in general.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/writing-programs.

27

No brainer
less is more

Bloomsburg University Enters Into Accelerated Law Admissions Program With University of Pittsburgh School of Law for Time and Cost Savings

https://www.law.pitt.edu/news/bloomsburg-university-enters-accelerated-law-admissions-program-university-pittsburgh-school

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2020/01/23/bloomsburg-enters-into-accelerated-law-admissions.html

28

Apparently this advice doesn’t apply to Mr. Frank Bruni who attended an elite NE boarding school, attended a top public flagship UNC-Chapel Hill, and an ivy graduate school, Columbia School of Journalism.

I’m pretty sure these educational experiences shaped who he ultimately became, it wasn’t just his own innate abilities and drive that got him where he is today. It all matters; how much it matters is certainly up to debate.

1 Like
29

The key to law school admission is undergrad GPA and top LSAT scores. Undergrad institution and major are minor factors. If you can get into a top undergrad school with good aid then go for it. Otherwise save your money for law school. As noted, top laws schools can cost $200,000 to up to $300,000 for the full three years. Again, a high GPA (3.75 or higher) and LSAT (169/170 or higher) may get you good merit money as many of the T-14 schools and at the 1st tier of schools below the T-14. Check out the Law School forum here on CC.
Disclosure - son graduated from Georgetown and then went to Duke Law. He got great aid/scholarships from GU and a good scholarship from Duke Law but graduated with nearly $160,000 in debt. He is currently in biglaw and paying off his loans.

30

I guess then you would use this against me too. I went to an elite boys prep school even though we were thoroughly middle class, attended a top public Ivy (Michigan) for $5K/year in tuition, and then a Top 25 business school for my MBA on my own dime through the use of scholarships. Wherever I would have gone would have shaped me, but would it have changed my life? Michigan didn’t and I doubt my life would have been any worse or better if I attended a place like Bemidji State for undergraduate. It was mostly my innate abilities, and the encouragement of my family, that got me to where I am today. (I delivered pizzas until I could find a job following grad school. So much for using my connections at elite institutions. A number of my prep school classmates haven’t done much with their lives.)

On the contrary, I am posting as someone who believes that where you go doesn’t matter as much as what you do, what you study, and most importantly, your personality and ability to convince an employer that you will be great at the company or the grad school.

Bruni took the opportunity he got through the UNC Morehead-Cain Scholarship (just like my valedictorian) and turned down an Ivy League school for undergraduate college because it was a financial burden on his parents. Sure, if he had the chance for grad school, why not attend one of the best in Journalism? Columbia wasn’t $75,000/year when he attended and he probably got admitted for working on the student newspaper at UNC. Maybe he also would have become a NY Times writer if he attended a school like Mizzou? Is it his fault he attended a boarding school that his parents sent him to, yet he now raves about Arizona State, the University of Delaware, the University of Waterloo, and other schools that aren’t considered “elite”?

Someone who would defend the status quo of college admissions mania, encourages students to go into debt, and says where you go matters is the person you want to criticize, not the opposite.

This is the second time you have brought this up in a discussion. Have you even read his book?

31

If the author raves about these schools, then it seems that it’s his opinion that where you go might shape who you will be.

32

I cannot personally share experience, but my sister, who was very “elitist” when it came to her undergrad and law school selections (she was Ivy for both and quite snotty about it), is now out in the working world and working alongside many peers from (gasp!) public universities. They are doing the same work, making the same money, and don’t have anywhere near the debt she graduated with! I think it’s really starting to change her whole view of higher education. Her Ivy law degree may have gotten her in the door at her first job (large, prestigious firm) but she was so miserable there that she didn’t last long, anyway


33

With LSAT and GPA being equal, are some saying there is no benefit to having those grades coming from an elite college rather than a less elite college, even one with a good reputation? Of course you can get into a top law school from any college, but it is hard to believe that it makes no difference at all. That being said, being a top student at UW or other good public college will certainly make you a viable candidate for a top law school.

That being said, you may not have a choice. As you know, the elite colleges have incredibly low admit rates. Also, finances are very important. If you can’t afford both an expensive UG degree and a law degree, you need to be realistic in your applications.

34

@mom2and It matters very little if at all. The reason the elites are overrepresented at the top law schools is because top students are over represented at those schools at the undergrad level. I don’t think there is any preference for elite school grads in law school admissions.

35

Well, every school produces some very successful alumni but average student’s achievements are a better reflection of any school then few exceptional stars who may have gotten exceptional breaks.

36

If you are an average student, then the average may matter. But if you’re not, who cares what the average student accomplishes. Furthermore, when you’re talking about the schools generally compared to elite schools on CC — we are rarely comparing elites to schools with 10% 6-year grad rates — being a top student isn’t as rare as a few CC posters want to believe.

37

“If you are an average student, then the average may matter. But if you’re not, who cares what the average student accomplishes.”

You as an individual won’t be an average student at both types of college. You may be a top student at both types of college, or an average student at a top college and a top student at a lower ranking college.

38

@Twoin18 I was responding to the poster above me, who was referring to low ranking schools.

39

Although it is a bit of an overstatement, law school deans live & die by US News rankings.

US News law school rankings do not consider students’ undergraduate schools, but do include matriculants’ undergraduate GPAs.

40

@mom2and despite what many on CC believe, it does matter. My BIL was the chair of a Med School admissions committee before he died. I had a conversation with him about this topic. He would talk about tiers of schools not fine rankings. A student with the same grades from a tier one school was superior to a student from a tier two or three. That was his opinion, but since he was the one that signed the acceptance letters it matters.

If you talked to him about everyday things you would never think he would be prestige conscious. This all changed when the topic moved to academics. When he was interviewing for his tenure track position they asked him why he was qualified for the position. His response was something like you trained me and you are the best in the world. It was also apparent when he was helping to guide his own DD.

Since this was Med School, he was much more concerned about the sciences. For the schools in the OPs original list, he would likely put UW over Georgetown, since UW is a powerhouse in things like BioChem.