Is America Ready for a Woman President?

<p>But how do you feel about voting for someone for president who made such a colossal error as agreeing with this war, and whom apparently did not even read the report? I don’t know. If there isn’t accountability among the Dems then how do we demand it among the Republicans? I understand your point that even if she had read it perhaps she would have still voted yes, but others who did read it voted no.</p>

<p>My understanding is that Hans Blix et. al. had already determined there were no WMDs prior to the start of the war. (?)</p>

<p>But weenie, that’s many of the candiates and many in Congress. And Hillary at the time said she was supporting the administration. It was Republican intelligence that led to many voting in this way. </p>

<p>I was very disappointed by the Dems having the wool pulled over their eyes. But I don’t see how this can be laid on their doorstep when it was the Reps doing the wool pulling.</p>

<p>Sort of an interesting analysis of the Clinton vote on the Kyl-Lieberman resolution:</p>

<p><a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;

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<p>Blix and his team inspectors returned to Iraq in December 2002, following a period of four years in which no inspections were allowed by Sadaam. The whole world, including Hans Blix, assumed that Sadaam wouldn’t have barred the inspectors unless he were hiding something. When Blix went to Iraq in December 2002, he was sure that he would find WMD programs.</p>

<p>Between December and March 2003, Blix made 700 inspections at over 500 sites. He also worked his way down the list of sites provided by the CIA, many of which were jokes. He and Sadaam danced around access, but as the threat of war increased, Sadaam became very cooperative with the inspections. For example, one of the issues was a large cache of chemical weapons that had been unaccounted for since 1991. The problem was that Iraq had disposed of these years earlier, but couldn’t prove it because they had simply dug a hole in the desert and poured the stuff in the ground. Sadaam made the scientists available, who took Blix’ people to the site and allowed them to do soil testing.</p>

<p>By March, Blix had reached the conclusion that Sadaam had been playing a big “Beware of Dog” game, that he had no WMD programs.</p>

<p>This was exactly the result that Clinton, Levin, and others had hoped for. Coercive diplomacy to force Sadaam to cooperate with the inspectors – the only way to prevent an invasion. The problem was the Bush had already made up him mind to take out Sadaam, not because of WMD, but because it fit the neocon objective of exerting military force to reshape the Middle East. Bush ordered Blix to pull his team out and launched shock 'n awe days later.</p>

<p>mythmom:</p>

<p>In fairness, the entire world believed that Sadaam was pursuing WMD programs. The Clintons assumed he was in the period from 1996 to 1998 when Sadaam booted the inspectors. Remember, Bill Clinton bombed Iraq in 1993 after Sadaam tried to assassinate George Bush and again in 1998 when Sadaam pulled the plug on inspections. George Tenant was absolutely sure Sadaam had nuclear programs.</p>

<p>As I mentioned earlier, the CIA was inclined to assume the worst because they had been so shocked to find that Sadaam was months away from a having a nuclear weapon at the time of Gulf War I – something that was discovered by accident as a result of Gulf War bombing. The CIA had NO idea. They bombed the nuke facility unknowingly when a couple of US bombers had extra bombs after hitting another target and diverted to attack a secondary target (what they thought was a chemical factory). The next day, doing damage assessment flights, they noticed an incredibly high level of activity at the bombed plant which raised suspicions. Turns out they had hit the Iraqi version of the Manhatten Project. You can well imagine that the intelligence community was pretty determined not to get caught with their pants down again, so there were institutional pressures to assume the worst from then on.</p>

<p>Overlay that with the Cheney/Wolfowitz neocon shadow government running their own intelligence operation out of the Pentagon, relying on a bunch of BS fed to them by Iranian double agent Ahmed Chalibi and silencing the intelligence groups within the CIA and State who were waving huge red flags about the overheated intelligence being championed by the Pentagon. Remember, the Cheney shadow government was spoon feeding their “intelligence” to Judith Miller at the NY Times, who wrote daily “investigative” articles making an “ironclad” case that Sadaam as pursuing nuclear weapons. Nobody had any idea the NYTIMES was participating in a government disinformation campaign, just like Colin Powell had no idea that everything he was given to present to the UN was a pack of lies.</p>

<p>It’s easy to sort it all out with the benefit of hindsight. But, in realtime, it was not unreasonable to assume that Sadaam was pursuing WMD. I know I was shocked when we found nothing in Iraq. The Iraq story is really a story of the comprehensive failure of the CIA.</p>

<p>And to anybody who can bear more Hillary anaysis, Frank Rich was good today:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/opinion/30rich.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/opinion/30rich.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;
Is Hillary Clinton the New Old Al Gore?</p>

<p>Weenie:</p>

<p>Your Huffington Post diary is pure crap. Hillary Clinton has stated unequivocably that she does NOT want permanent bases in Iraq, let alone “superbases”. I am not aware of a single Democrat who doesn’t want to get out of Iraq as fast as we can do so safely and responsibly in a way that minimizes the humanitarian catastrophe. I am not aware of any Democrat who wants ANYTHING to do with miltary action against Iran. The Pentagon is absolutely dead set against military action against Iran. Sec. Gates and the Joint Chiefs are making that very clear to the Armed Services Committee behind the scenes. They are working with the Democrats on the Committee to make sure Cheney doesn’t get an itchy trigger finger. The Democrats are trying to engage the Iranians at levels well above the idiot Ahmadinejad. The Iranian-American academic jailed in Iran was recently released because Democrat Lee Hamilton of the Iraq Study Group personally contacted the Ayatollah in Iran and worked out the release.</p>

<p>Hillary Clinton has more political skills in her little finger than Al Gore has in his whole body. Gore ran an abysmal race in 2000. His political instincts are poor and he doesn’t enjoy campaigning. Why do you think Al Gore isn’t in this year’s race? </p>

<p>Frank Rich is just plain wrong. If Gore had run a campaign half as effective as this year’s Cllnton campaign, he would have won in a landslide. Instead, he pushed all the Clinton braintrust out of his campaign. He fired Mark Penn after an early knock-down drag out when Penn told him the polling was clear that Gore should embrace Bill Clinton and his record. Gallup had Clinton’s favorables ranging from 47% to 57% throughout the year in 2000. Gore didn’t use him at all and distanced himself from the Clinton administration.</p>

<p>Kerry ran an even worse campaign. Probably the worst campaign since Michael Dukakis in 1988.</p>

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<p>She might have been a great first president, but George Washington already beat her to it. ;-)</p>

<p>Hillary may start out as an asterisk president, but it will be forgotten soon enough if she is successful. </p>

<p>A good example of what I’m talking about is Harry Truman. He was headed straight for the asterisk bin during much of his first term. He was an uneducated political underboss who rose through and series of back room deals coupled with the death of FDR to accidentally end up as president. But by turning his sinking political fortunes around and winning a term in his own right in 1948, he wiped the asterisk off his name and is now a figure so revered that even the Republicans, who hated him back then, now try to link themselves with him and his legacy.</p>

<p>The opposite case is Gerald Ford. Despite being and competent and honorable man, he’ll forever wear the asterisk of “the only completely unelected man to become president.” Had he succeeded in turning his fortunes around and winning his own term in 1976 the asterisk would have been gone.</p>

<p>So if Hillary is a poor or mediocre president she’ll certainly have an asterisk. But if she is a successful president, gets re-elected, wins many doubters over, and ends on anything remotely resembling a high note, the asterisk will be completely forgotten. Only losers keep their asterisks.</p>

<p>“I have to say that I think it would be slightly better if the first female President was not the spouse of a former President…just as I think it would be slightly better if the first black President was somebody who grew up in a poor black neighborhood in the U.S.”</p>

<p>Huh? Why in the world would it be “better” if the first black President had grown up in a poor black neighborhood? What about having been poor would make a black candidate more desirable? Would it also be “better” if our next white President had grown up in a “holler” in West Virginia?</p>

<p>I read the Frank Rich piece this evening in today’s paper. What a goulash of historical revisionism, insinuation, and innuendo…I’ve seen cotton candy with more substance. Gore was not heavily favored and the dynamics of 2008 are in no way comparable to those of 1948.</p>

<p>If Giuliani does get the GOP nomination, I’m going to enjoy watching the contortions of social conservatives regurgitating crud about the Wife of the Adulterer and endorsing the Adulterer in her place.</p>

<p>Hey TheDad:</p>

<p>It looks like they love them some Hillary in California. She drew an estimated 14,000 people to a rally this afternoon in downtown Oakland, introduced by Diane Feinstein.</p>

<p>Newspaper article:
<a href=“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/30/MNM8SHF2M.DTL[/url]”>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/30/MNM8SHF2M.DTL&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Video of the rally (Part 1):
<a href=“Live news stream: CBS News Bay Area: Watch local, live news stream free 24/7 from CBS San Francisco - Free 24x7 news stream”>Live news stream: CBS News Bay Area: Watch local, live news stream free 24/7 from CBS San Francisco - Free 24x7 news stream;

<p>Video of the rally (Part 2):
<a href=“Live news stream: CBS News Bay Area: Watch local, live news stream free 24/7 from CBS San Francisco - Free 24x7 news stream”>Live news stream: CBS News Bay Area: Watch local, live news stream free 24/7 from CBS San Francisco - Free 24x7 news stream;

<p>These rallies are insane – as large as the biggest general election rallies in a normal cycle, but it’s still three months before the Iowa caucus. Unprecedented.</p>

<p>The Republicans are still touring lunch counters and VFW lodges. Grandpa Fred is drawing crowds of a hundred or so on a sidewalk.</p>

<p>The general election is going to be off the charts.</p>

<p>ID, with three months to go, I am amused by all the contortions that some Obama & Edwards are going through to discount Hillary’s apparent strength in the polls and how the evil mainstream media is prematurely annointing her.</p>

<p>Obama had a chance…as late as February/March, there was a tide that could have been serious if it had been built. He’s actually my #2 choice but my resolve about Hillary has been strengthened in light of Obama’s skittishness to actually engage in political combat, as if the general election will be a prim tea party. While I have my own ideological considerations, most of all I want a Democrat who’s an effective fighter and that narrows the field to one.</p>

<p>I like some things about Obama and I actually like a lot of JRE has to say about economic issues, but neither one passes the “fighter” test and without passing it, no Democrat is going to win. I’d been a bit concerned about Giuliani as an opponent but increasingly I think he’s a brittle opponent and also I think just enough social conservative Republicans are going to sit on their hands for him, Hillary as the opponent notwithstanding.</p>

<p>I now think an Edwards / Obama ticket would be good. Just my opinion. I am sure that there are some dads here that disagree. </p>

<p>I don’t care about someone being a fighter. I want sincerity, honesty and integrity. Not sure that Clinton offers those attributes. However, that is just my opinion, sure to be challenged by the Hillary cc fan club. In fact, I think not only do we have a member of the Hillary obsessed fan club, but also the President, …and head cheerleader! :o</p>

<p>It’s fun to watch the Hillary supporters in action.</p>

<p>ID: “I am not aware of a single Democrat who doesn’t want to get out of Iraq as fast as we can do so safely and responsibly in a way that minimizes the humanitarian catastrophe. I am not aware of any Democrat who wants ANYTHING to do with miltary action against Iran. The Pentagon is absolutely dead set against military action against Iran.”</p>

<p>Well, I sure do hope you are right about all that! :)</p>

<p>If I were to choose a title, I would go for Strategos, but I understand it’s already taken in fact if not in name. Sigh. Or Master of the Auguries.</p>

<p>An Edwards/Obama ticket is vulnerable to lack of experience on national security issues. Of course, so is a Giuliani/anyone ticket.</p>

<p>Does Clinton have any national security experience? </p>

<p>Oh wait, she did vote to go to Iraq. Now she wants out or not. I’m not sure.</p>

<p>What other national security experience does she bring to the proverbial table ? I’m not trying to be facetious, I just don’t know.</p>

<p>“Huh? Why in the world would it be “better” if the first black President had grown up in a poor black neighborhood? What about having been poor would make a black candidate more desirable? Would it also be “better” if our next white President had grown up in a “holler” in West Virginia?”</p>

<p>I think it would be better because I would like the storyline of the first black president to involve overcoming the kind of poverty and institutional racism that so many minorities experience in this country. Colin Powell would have fit pretty well with this storyline; Condoleeza Rice does not. Obama had some of that experience, but different in some important ways. To put it another way, that would apply to the first female, black, or hispanic President–I would prefer that they achieve their goals by overcoming the obstacles our society has put in their way–rather than bypassing them through some fortuity in their backgrounds. Again, it’s not the fault of any particular candidate that they don’t fit within the symbolic storyline I’d like to see. We’ve already had Presidents who overcame poverty (i.e., grew up in a “holler”)–we haven’t had one yet who overcame racial or gender-based obstacles.
As far as asterisks go, check out this wikipedia article about female governors: <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_state_governors_in_the_United_States[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_state_governors_in_the_United_States&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Well, it wasn’t my point, but I presume the point being made was about Obama or someone like him. Basically, that a black president who was descended from slaves and whose ancestors had suffered through the Jim Crow/lynching era and who himself had grown up suffering the economic results of the remnants of those hateful times that are still with us today might be able to speak more authentically to the typical African American experience than someone who was the son of an African immigrant and a white mother and had grown up in middle class comfort.</p>

<p>(cross-posted with Hunt)</p>

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<p>Most of all I want a Democrat who espouses mainstream values and who can WIN. I don’t agree with every particular, but Hillary’s policies are close enough to my own opinions that I can overlook the differences. </p>

<p>Actually, I could support just about any of the Democrats running with the exception of that annoying little twerp, Dennis Kucinich. But whomever the Democrats nominate must be able to win in November to prevent the Republicans from damaging the country any further beyond the huge mess they have already created.</p>

<p>So that’s my main doubt about Hillary - that she is too polarizing to peel off many indepedents and any Republicans to vote for her. And combined with the reluctance of some especially old-fashioned or particularly timid voters to vote for ANY woman, I worry that it adds up to a very doubtful road to victory in the general election.</p>

<p>The sad thing about Kucinich is that while I agree with his positions, I think he’s pretty much proved that he doesn’t play well with others.</p>