Is an private undergrad degree worth paying more for vs a CSU or UC undergrad degree?

Paying for College
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Number one, there are different types of privates and publics - those designations only pertain to where most of the school’s money and control comes from, not the quality of the school. The UCs themselves are some of the best universities in the country irrespective of public status, with some (Berkeley and UCLA, particularly) being on par with the very elite private schools. Conversely there are many private schools that aren’t really a better choice than a public. Cal Lutheran, for example, is a good school, but I certainly wouldn’t choose it over Cal Poly SLO or UCSD et al. unless it was significantly cheaper.

Some employers care about the undergrad school. Many don’t.

Number two, I do sometimes think that undergrads overestimate the importance of the networking/alumni connections and whether they think that will get you a job. On-campus recruiting is tremendously important in some fields. In others, it barely registers. Alumni connections and career center machinations can be useful in some areas but there are lots of other ways that graduating college seniors find employment.

42

I’m going to chime in because my husband is a prof at SDSU. His perspective is that everything about going to school at SDSU is difficult – it’s difficult to get your classes, difficult to find parking during prime times (T&Th 10-2), difficult to get your lunch without waiting in a long line & difficult to graduate in 5 years. This last point is especially important, because if you are going to end up paying 5-6 years for SDSU (SDSU has a 74% grad rate for SIX years – they don’t report their 4 year rate, which is disconcerting, but according to the college board it’s 28%!!!). Meanwhile, LMU &SCU have rates in the 70%s for 4 year graduation. Cal Lutheran comes in at 56%.
http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/professionals/four-year-graduation-rates-for-four-year-colleges.pdf

So, I think you need to consider 5 years min at SDSU vs 4 years private. Also – is her major impacted? If so, she may not get to study the major of her choice. This is typically not an issue for private schools.

Furthermore, the class size at LMU/SCU is much smaller than the large state schools. One thing to look at is whether the classes are taught by professors or lecturers or grad students. You can get through SDSU without many classes that require writing assignments, simply because a prof doesn’t have time to read 300 term papers per class. Meanwhile, at private schools, not many classes have more than 150 people – most classes have about 50 or fewer. You will get far more personalized instruction & get to know your professors. It is very rare when my husband gets to know any of his students (he teaches 2 500-seat lectures/semester). When he gets asked to write letters of rec, he often can’t do it because he doesn’t know the students personally. When he taught at USD (prior to going to SDSU), he had classes of 30 kids & he knew them all by name & where they were from, etc. The smaller class atmosphere leads to a much more integrated learning community, in my opinion.

Lastly, as to your other thought – grad schools → depending on the field, where you went to UG does matter to a certain extent. For example, SDSU has a poor track record of sending any kids to med school, yet at UCSD, it’s commonplace (SDSU does have an AMAZING nursing program, though). In my husband’s Ph.D. program (at a top 20 university), there were over 400 applicants for 7 spots & only ONE person came from a non-top tier university (& that person came from Michigan State – a pretty good school). The others were from Yale, Duke, Columbia, Boston U., USC & Cal). I’m not saying that you can’t get to a top grad school from a CSU (or lesser ranked private – like Cal Lutheran), but it may be a lot tougher. If you are a high achieving student at a top tier school (this includes the UCs), grad schools know you are intelligent & hard working. Meanwhile, at SDSU, my husband has to use a textbook with 8th grade reading level to teach an intro GE subject course (and gets asked questions like “what does ‘adolescence’ mean?”). While the top 5%-10% of his students are brilliant (those who stand out are typically from OOS or International), the fact is that most are mediocre & the bottom fourth doesn’t belong in college (not prepared or they party their way to an F). The quality of the students you are surrounding yourself with is another intangible.

43

Boy, my son’s experience is completely the opposite of the above posters so far ^^^. He is in his 3rd year at SDSU as a CS major, came in with 38 units of AP credit and will easily graduate in 4 years. He would agree parking is a problem so he chooses to live near campus. He has had several courses requiring writing assignments, especially the required GE’s Critical Thinking and Communication courses, Upper Division Writing courses and some of the Humanities courses. Many of his friends are Engineering/CS and Biology majors whom are very high achieving so not sure how anyone can make a blanket statement that the OOS and International are the only high achieving students at SDSU. I seriously doubt with the admission statistics for Freshman 2016 that most are mediocre???

Average high school GPA: 3.85
Average SAT score: 1174
Average ACT score: 27

Everyone is allowed their opinions but my son’s and our experience has very positive.
Anyone considering a college should always visit and draw their own conclusions.

44

<<<
thought – grad schools --> depending on the field, where you went to UG does matter to a certain extent. For example, SDSU has a poor track record of sending any kids to med school, yet at UCSD, it’s commonplace
<<<

That’s not really a fair statement. Calif premeds have ALWAYS targeted UCs to attend…that’s been the case for 40+ years. And, the better students target the UCs as well. That’s why there are fewer CSU students heading to med school.

The “poor track record” isn’t fair. Few kids from SDSU even apply to med school. Only about 40 per year apply, and who knows what their stats are or how many get in (Icouldn’t find published acceptance info). This has NOTHING to do with how the med schools view SDSU. The med schools don’t care. They care about STATS…not school name. SDSU, unlike UCSD, does write Committee Letters.

As for it being “commonplace” for UCSD to send kids to med school, that needs clarification. Because it’s a top UC, it attracts a gazillion premeds…likely over 1500 frosh are premed. After heavy weeding, it has about 450 applicants…and only about 35% receive at least one MD acceptance. I wouldn’t say that a school that has a lowish 35% med school acceptance rate is “commonplace” when it comes to sending kids to med school…and this is after monstrous weeding!

BTW…as for long lunch lines…that’s pretty much everywhere if you target eating lunch from 11:30 - 1. Clever students try to schedule their lunch breaks before or after those critical times. That may mean eating a later breakfast at 9am, so eating lunch at 1pm isn’t difficult, or eating a light/no breakfast and then eating a big lunch at 10:30 and catching a snack around 2pm.

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I just want to point out that “OOS and International are the only high achieving students” is not the same thing as “the top 5%-10%… are typically from OOS or International.”

46

After all the info is in, I would suggest after detailed pros/cons, and maybe revisit top 2. Also keep in mind if student decides to change major, or career direction. Also if considering grad school/professional school after UG, how well does UG prepare?

IMHO, a student who looks for all opportunities on where they go to school - it can be so dependent on how the student achieves where they are planted.

My DDs went where they had the best scholarships and the schools that were the best match - which coincidentally was also where they wanted to attend.

Sometimes have to really analyze cost/benefit.

47

I don’t think the schools make much of a difference in terms of employment opportunities. I’ve got one kid who finished his undergrad at a CSU and another who completed her education at an elite private. Both kids have the same majors. Both went on to grad school for identical master’s degrees - one public, one private. The really big difference in terms of outcomes down the line is that the kid who opted for private school is carrying a lot more debt.

The kid at the private college got a job relevant to her major immediately after she graduated, as did the kid at the public. The pay at those first jobs was roughly equivalent. Neither got their jobs via campus employment or recruiting – though my DD certainly got a lot of support from her private college career center, but she found the job on her own, through public listings – as did my son. And they got their jobs by virtue of the experience they brought with them (work, internships, etc.) – employers really care a lot more about background and experience than they do about the name of the school.

If you were looking at an elite like Stanford or Yale a case could probably be made – but you are still waiting to hear from UC’s and it’s pretty likely that your daughter is going to be admitted to one. Santa Clara and Loyola are wonderful schools, but there is no employer that is going to place greater value on those degrees than a degree from any UC.

I do think that the quality and rigor of my daughter’s education at the private college was definitely better than my son’s CSU – but we weren’t paying full tuition, and I don’t think that it was worth the price differential between full tuition costs at both.

I think you need to wait until all results are in and see where your daughter’s preferences are at that point, and if she wants the private schools, explore her reasons. But the job thing is simply not true - it just isn’t going to make any difference at all. (Other than serendipitous reasons – wherever she goes, your daughter may meet someone who knows someone who knows of a job opening at such-and-such a company, and that turns out to be how she gets the job --but that can happen anywhere, and it is also just as likely to happen through EC’s and other activities as through the career center.).

In other words – there may very well be good reasons for your family to invest the extra money in the private school, given that you are in a financial position to have that luxury — but future employment prospects isn’t one of them.

48

Thank you, everyone, for all the input! I really appreciate it. It is very helpful.

49

@calmom Very well put. I agree with you in many regards. Employers want engaged, motivated and experienced individuals foremost. There are very few colleges whose name alone carries sway.

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I’m not trying to say you won’t get a top notch education at SDSU – after all, my husband is a prof there & he’s awesome :slight_smile: :slight_smile: However, your path is perhaps more difficult to your end goal – and may take longer. Of course, I’m speaking in generalities, but students at SDSU in the nursing program, Engineering, Bio & CS TYPICALLY (& in the case of nursing & engineering DEFINITELY) have higher incoming stats than those studying in less rigorous fields. One of the problems with teaching an large intro GE is that his job is to weed students out who aren’t prepared for the rigors of college. That’s why his class has a 40% D&F rate. Ask yourself, why do 25% of incoming SDSU students need remedial math & english? (That number is improving BTW). I doubt that many private schools have remedial courses… The purpose of the CSUs & the population they serve is a different mission than private schools, so that is a philosophical discussion.

As to my statement that in my husband’s classes (x 20 years at SDSU), the top students are typically (not always) from OOS or Int’l – I base this on the fact that he asks students (privately) who did really well, to come by & introduce themselves (because they may later want a letter of rec & he won’t know them otherwise). These students are typically from Out of Service Area (non-SD county) or foreign – which is not surprising, because you need higher test scores & grades to get in to SDSU if you are not from SD County. The 2 kids (in 20 years) who got 100% in his class were from Norway & Sweden. And, keep in mind the Sweetwater-SDSU Compact for Success – if you come from Sweetwater UHSD – all you need to do is pass the CSU A-G classes & take the SAT/ACT (no min score) & you are guaranteed admission (these are the students that typically fail out or need remedial help).

Here’s one test for the intellectual vibrancy – go to campus on a Friday afternoon & see how many students & faculty are present. Who chooses to be on campus when it’s almost weekend can give you some insight into the academic environment. (FYI – my husband reports that the faculty parking lot is empty on Fridays).

51

Probably most do, though it depends on the selectivity level. For example, Princeton has just MAT 100, while a less selective school may have several remedial math courses.

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@Steglitz90 some good info re SDSU but keep in mind that SDSU students are probably much much stronger than you are giving them credit for. On a selectivity basis alone their acceptance rate was 34% in 2016. This compares to the privates that the OP is considering: LMU 59%, SC 49%, Cal Lutheran 62%.

53

According to catalog descriptions, LMU has two remedial math courses (algebra and precalculus), SCU has one (precalculus), and Cal Lutheran has two (intermediate algebra and precalculus). All also offer lower level courses for students who do not need calculus for their majors. SDSU also offers two remedial math courses (college algebra and precalculus).

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@my2caligirls I have been trying to get a feel for how the acceptance rate actually works, perhaps you know? It seems that the acceptance rate of schools has a lot to do with how many applicants there are, not necessarily the overall academic strength of the student pool. I mean, I suppose the schools that have more applicants can choose from the stronger ones but feel like the acceptance rate is not as it may seem on the surface? Your thoughts?

55

@my2caligirls For sure SDSU is selective! It is very popular --many people apply (off the top of my head, I think maybe only UCLA gets more applications in the US) – which is what drives its selectivity. Its acceptance rate is certainly an outlier compared to profiles of similar academic institutions. However, use of admit rate to indicate selectivity can be misleading. For instance, SDSU has a similar admit rate as U Miami, but UM’s avg SAT scores is 1380 compared to SDSU’s 1180 & it’s ranked #43 to SDSU #146. Even if SCU & LMU have higher admissions rates, the truth is that these 2 schools are tougher to get into than SDSU as they require higher test scores (SDSU’s average score is at the 25th percentile for SCU & LMU. CLU is more on par with SDSU academically (avg SAT 1180). So the truth is that it will be difficult for an average SDSU applicant to get into SCU/LMU/UM, but not the other way around.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of factors to consider when deciding a college & I’m not trying to tell anyone that SDSU is a bad choice. I was just trying to shed some light on some info that many people don’t know about SDSU or don’t think to look into (like it may take 5 years to graduate). SDSU has some really strong programs & may be more affordable for some. Also, not to be overlooked is how well a student fits in at each type of school – will s/he get lost in a big school or will s/he suffocate in a small school? Is the beach too great a temptation (it was for me!)? Is it important to live on campus? Is it important to have a lot of small classes, or do you want to be enjoy not being pestered in large lectures? Do you want big time sports, or do you not care about that? There are lots of different experiences out there – thankfully! I wish the OP nothing but the best of success & happiness!

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@Steglitz90 Thank you for all the information on SDSU. My daughter knows of several people from her school that went to SDSU last year and has heard them report stories about the party atmosphere. Although she knows there is some of that at every school there are schools that have more of the reputation for sure.

57

I trust that top 5%-10% of public and private schools are typically the most driven and remarkable people. We visited CSU Chico CS department last Oct. The top students and their senior projects were very impressive. They proudly told us that their friend was selected/hired over some Cal students in a job fair. The profs know all their top students. A class of 175 to begin with, only 28 graduate with a CS degree for various reasons in the end. Yes, this is not a selective school, but, we took away a few messages for our son’s decision making. The fit is important i.e. how will our son strive…

58

[QUOTE=""]
Here's one test for the intellectual vibrancy -- go to campus on a Friday afternoon & see how many students & faculty are present. Who chooses to be on campus when it's almost weekend can give you some insight into the academic environment. (FYI -- my husband reports that the faculty parking lot is empty on Fridays). <<<'

[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t use that as a test of “intellectual vibrancy”. It’s not unusual for students to schedule their MWF classes for mornings/early afternoons, and the corresponding afternoon labs on M, T, W, or Th so that they don’t have classes after 1-2pm on Fridays.

Even at the best schools, students often have part-time jobs and many work on Friday afternoons thru Sunday.

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@tintinhope I agree with you on the top 5-10%. Every school will have them. I suppose much of it just boils back down to the student and what they make out of the time spent and opportunities they seek.

60

It should be as simple as this: number of applicants accepted / number of applicants.