<p>^^That is just a reflection of your learning style–perhaps you prefer smaller classes and a more intimate relationship? I assume you learned more in Upper Division courses due to the far smaller class size?</p>
<p>Ill bet I could learn a ton at any university in the US! They all teach roughly the same material for undergrad.</p>
<p>Yes Berk is very well known in China. ( i am not sure about other countries) the other UCs not so much.
People would know berk but not cornell, nor like caltech nor other UCs.
Why?
If you look at the graduate school rankings in the world, Berkeley is VERY VERY VERY high ranked.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, but you sound like one arrogant dude. There are probably 20,000 people each year who would have LOVED to have your spot. They would appreciate the education, the excellent education that top schools like Cal, Michigan, Cornell, etc. provide. If you hate it so much, why not just transfer instead of shoving into everyone’s face how “brilliant” you are? Brilliant people solve their own problems instead of building themselves up to put others down. Until you’re #1 at Berkeley, which I’m very sure you’re not, don’t complain about how “stupid” everyone else is in comparison to you.</p>
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<p>No, that actually gets to precisely what I’m talking about. Cal didn’t have to choose to join the University of California system, and if it did, Cal could have attempted to change the UC governing bylaws, and in fact, Cal can continue to try now. The fact that it doesn’t do so is a choice.</p>
<p>As a case in point, the Master Plan mandates that UC must provide certain educational services to the state, namely to provide a certain level of preference to California high school seniors, etc… But I am not aware of any attempt by Cal to resist or modify these requirements when they were first being proposed. In fact, the Cal administration at that time not only went along willingly, but was also a profound proponent of the master plan. That’s a choice. Cal chose to be governed under a certain structure. Maybe it was a good choice, maybe it was a bad choice. But it was a choice.</p>
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<p>Arrogant or not, what I say is truth. When you apply for anything you should always aim as high as possible. I’m sure you applied to Stanford and the likes, right?</p>
<p>I didn’t say everyone was stupid. I’m not a genius. I’ve met many people here that have been smarter than me, but I’ve also met many people that are not much smarter than the average student at tier 3 state schools. Some of my friends who I feel are definitely capable of going to Berkeley and smarter than some Berkeley students–due to familial circumstances–go to low ranked universities. Coming here doesn’t mean as much as outsiders think.</p>
<p>To liquidmetal: Yeah, I found that out throughout my undergraduate career. I do prefer smaller class sizes.</p>
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Nope, I don’t find the pretentiousness of many Stanford students to my liking. Besides, if you can go to Cal for half the cost and get the same education, why go to Stanford? BTW, I’m not even a student at Cal.</p>
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I’m sorry you feel that way. Why don’t you look at the avg. salary of a recent Berkeley grad in, say, computer science, engineering, pharmacy, architecture, etc. Then compare that to the salary of a recent Cal-State Bakersfield, or “tier 3” grad. When you figure out the monumental difference, let me know.</p>
<p>vc08,</p>
<p>I myself sometimes wish I had applied to some private universities years ago. Is it because I “hate” UCLA? Nah. I just wish I had known about the fantastic financial aid and opportunities it offers. I might have gotten a better deal for the price I paid to attend UCLA.</p>
<p>It doesn’t mean I didn’t love UCLA or anything. I just thought that California meant “go to UC.”</p>
<p>vc08: I noticed you applied to Notre Dame, UNC and UVA. I’m just curious as to why you would pay double the cost of Cal to get a relatively similar education. If you find people at Stanford so pretentious why not apply to schools like HYP that are equally as expensive as Notre Dame and UVA?</p>
<p>Just because you are choosing not to apply to more prestigious schools doesn’t mean you need to get on your high horse and judge Godfrey to say that he’s arrogant for wishing he applied to other places.</p>
<p>^^ I don’t think Godfrey’s assumption that vc08 applied to Stanford was well-placed. And if you didn’t notice, Godfrey long got on his high horse and judged other Cal students (disdained them, dismissed many of them as no more intelligent than students at “tier 3 state schools,” which is asinine in and of itself).</p>
<p>“Nope, I don’t find the pretentiousness of many Stanford students to my liking. Besides, if you can go to Cal for half the cost and get the same education, why go to Stanford?”</p>
<p>I met some Stanford students last summer at my uncle’s work who were interning for that company. Those 7 people I met there were actually very cool, humble, and down to earth. Just bc Stanford students are smart, it doesn’t mean that everyone at Stanford is pretentious. Also, Cal is a great university, but the education at Cal, I am willing to argue, is not “same” as education at Stanford. Smaller classes, more attention, different student body and different overall academic experiences for the students.</p>
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<p>I don’t think that was vc08’s argument – her experience is that they are pretentious (and I’m sure she’s aware there are many who aren’t).</p>
<p>To be honest, though, I’ve seen the same of a very large number of Stanford students: that they are “better” because they got into Stanford. As a satirical article from the Daily Stanford puts it (though it really does put a spotlight on the common attitude):</p>
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<p>Regardless, I won’t make a judgment of an entire student body (unlike Godfrey, who makes open judgment of such, or at least subsets of it).</p>
<p>kyledavid: </p>
<p>As you said, there could be some Stanford students that happen to be arrogant and very pretentious. But, same thing goes to any other university. I happened to think that many students from elite schools, on average, are not overly pretentious about their schools or anything like that in many cases.</p>
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<p>Pretentious? Just because they got into one of the top 3 universities in the world doesn’t necessarily mean they are pretentious. The reason I didn’t apply to Stanford, and why many others I know didn’t apply, are because we self-selected. We felt that we wouldn’t get in anyway, so we didn’t apply. I’m just saying people shouldn’t self-select and try.</p>
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<p>It’s called observations over 4 years. VC08 hasn’t even been an undergraduate at Berkeley or Stanford…</p>
<p>I’ve noticed a lot of Berkeley kids have inferiority complexes when it comes to Stanford. The fact is the average student at Stanford is smarter than the average student at Berkeley. Just because I go to Berkeley doesn’t mean I can’t accept this fact and just because this is true doesn’t mean that Stanford kids are “more arrogant” than Berkeley kids. We’re just as relatively arrogant about being better than lower ranked UCs. I think most people have school pride, and this is especially prevalent at higher ranked schools.</p>
<p>^^Agreed </p>
<p>But you have to also remember that just a few decades ago Berkeley was equal to if not better to Stanford! It is really with the Silicon Valley boom that Stanford did well for itself. So I would say that current Berkeley students have carried on the lingering sentiment.</p>
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I’ve been wearing Cal shirts since I knew what clothes were. I need a new wardrobe.</p>
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I hate to disagree with you, and I certainly hope this doesn’t sound arrogant, but it’s hard to find “more prestigious” schools in the US besides UVA, UM, and ND. You obviously aren’t aware, but the biggest cross-over school for OOS students admitted to UVA is Harvard. That being the case, I think I did a pretty good job of “aiming high.” And if you look through Godfrey’s posts, I think you’ll find he did a pretty good job of slamming the entire Cal student body.</p>
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That was exactly my argument.</p>
<p>I am aware that probably the vast majority of Stanford students are gracious, modest, etc. But those who aren’t make it painfully obvious. Why do you think USC earned the label “University of Spoiled Children?” Is everyone there truly incredibly wealthy? No, but most of the students do their best to live up to that name. I think the same is true of Stanford. Part of the allure of Stanford is knowing that is turns out incredible wealthy alumni, and part of being a student there (again, generally speaking) is about living up to that hype.</p>
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Perhaps my experiences are simply different, but I believe most would agree that there is a severe difference in attitude between students at UCLA and USC, for example.</p>
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What’s it matter? I have extemely close relatives at both schools, and an aunt who is high in the administration at Stanford (won’t reveal position for privacy purposes). I have a cousin, whom I truly admire, who graduated at the top of his engineering class there a few years ago. Obviously I have nothing to gain by siding with one school or the other; I know and love people at both schools.</p>
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You sound bitter. Don’t blame your lack of confidence when applying to schools a few years ago on others, especially on the school that accepted you! You sound soo unhappy. So transfer! There’s no shame in that. If a Cal degree doesn’t carry any weight, the smart thing to do would be to transfer. If you’re as smart as you make yourself out to be, I’m sure Stanford would love to have you. I truly hope that at some point in your life you can look back and appreciate whatever education you did receive. Even if it was just flipping cards in the student section at halftime, playing intramural sports, or looking up at the campinile, I hope you can come to peace with the education Cal has afforded you. Perhaps it wasn’t the best choice for you–Cal certainly isn’t for everyone. But I believe some years from now when you look at the positives, you’ll realize how fortunate you truly are.</p>
<p>vc08:</p>
<p>“You sound bitter. Don’t blame your lack of confidence when applying to schools a few years ago on others, especially on the school that accepted you! You sound soo unhappy. So transfer! There’s no shame in that. If a Cal degree doesn’t carry any weight, the smart thing to do would be to transfer. If you’re as smart as you make yourself out to be, I’m sure Stanford would love to have you.”</p>
<p>You talk a lot of nonsense. Find an example where Godfrey blamed his lack of confidence on others. Also, find an example where Godfrey said that Cal degree doesn’t carry any weight. What Godfrey was saying was that while Cal is good, he would have been happier to have been at Stanford, just like most other people on the planet. Also, it can be easily deduced from his posts so far in this thread that he is a senior at Cal graduating this year, so he would not be eligible to transfer to Stanford even if he wished. And, I think that you are the one that sounds bitter to me. What is up with you to get overly irritated by someone who simply said that he wished that he at least applied to Stanford to see if he could get in a few years back?</p>
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<p>This is true. Twenty years ago Berkeley was ranked around number 7 in the nation while Stanford was far below. Stanford and U Penn are the two “newcomers” in the top 10. But again, in terms of graduate programs, I’d say that Berkeley might even be superior to Stanford …and that Berkeley might possibly have the best graduate programs in the world (since 100% of its programs are top 10 ranked). In terms of undergrad, Stanford is better though.</p>
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<p>I never slammed the “entire” Cal student body. Pick your words wisely. I “slammed” some of the subpar students. I made the truthful statement that the average Stanford student is smarter than the average Cal student. But there are equally smart people at both schools and there are geniuses at both…it’s just on average…nothing but the truth.</p>
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<p>Knowing relatives who attend certain schools is different from attending the school. I can more accurately judge the student body having studied here for 4 years. Before I came here I was like you. I thought everyone here was amazing…</p>
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<p>I never blamed my lack of confidence in applying on schools/others…when did I do that? I blamed myself for not applying; i used the term “self-selection” remember? Like patlees88 said, what is wrong with regretting not applying to HYS? I am graduating in May and moving on from Cal to continue my education elsewhere, so transferring isn’t an option, but I do sometimes wish I had applied to HYS…is that so wrong? I’m simply saying that people should never self-select and I have learned about that with my undergrad experience.</p>