<p>Marysidney, the best school that any of my closest friends went to was ND. Is that an elite school in your opinion? It is in my mind and no one in our circle of friends thought badly of him. Some of us went to college and some didn’t. Our college choices or our decisions not to go to college didn’t define our friendship.</p>
<p>Sent from my SCH-R760 using CC</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I must admit, I am amazed at the opinions I read from some of the so called elites on these boards. I am in a hard charging profession, and truly never realized people like this still existed until I started reading CC. Wow is all I can say. I’m just glad my kids are totally out of this world of myopic thinking, superior gene pools, and superficial class superiority.</p>
<p>If you’re in the top 1%, you’re in the top 1%, whether you go to Yale or State U. It’s native intellect and personal ambition that drive a person to succeed. Access to resources may play a part, but plenty of smart, successful people come from humble beginnings. As my daughter put it when she was applying to schools in the fall, “I’m taking my intelligence with me, no matter where I end up.”</p>
<p>That said, if it’s not a financial hardship and you can get into a good school, why not take advantage of your good fortune by going there?</p>
<p>Riprorin, this argument is in your mind, not mine. Nobody on this thread said they chose their friends on the basis of where they went to school, or their intellectual capacity; if I chose my school because I wanted to learn with kids who were interested in learning in the same way that I was, that is entirely a different matter. This is what I mean by making stuff up.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I guess most people are shallow then. I can’t remember where I saw it, but there was a study which had college kids identify their closest friends. They all took IQ tests. Median difference in IQs between kids who mutually identified as best friends was about 2.5 points.</p>
<p>I don’t think people have any intention of choosing friends based on intelligence, but that’s what lots of people actually do.</p>
<p>Truthseeker- and your figure skating daughter just naturally fell onto the ice at age 3 and ended up skating competitively? She didn’t need a good coach, or lessons, or skates that you didn’t pick out of the pile at a yard sale? And she’d be happy skating at a competition at my local ice rink which allows anyone who takes lessons at the local arena to compete- i.e. the range of talent goes from “stinks” to “OK”? </p>
<p>Probably not. She wants to compete with people at her level or better; she wants to get better by surrounding herself with people who know the difference between OK and great; she wants exposure to great coaches and top notch equipment and to be seen by people who recognize great skating. </p>
<p>And yet people with kids with extraordinary talents in other areas are elitist snobs for thinking that kids who major in math at MIT or CMU or Berkeley represent a “better” peer group for their math kid, than the kids who are majoring in math at Western Connecticut State College?</p>
<p>Why are we the elitists and you’re just a supportive parent who wants your kids to fulfill their dreams?</p>
<p>truthseeker, Implying “child abuse” re: college seems over the top. And like blossom says, your own kids are very involved in competitive ice skating.One of my friends had a daughter that was into ice dancing at national and international levels for a few years. The family was consumed with it and spent tons of money on this pursuit. Most people pursuing sports at an “elite” level are spending lots of energy and money.</p>
<p>I have to admit that I’m amazed that somebody with a kid who’s competing internationally in figure skating is saying he just wants her to be a normal kid. Say what, now?</p>
<p>Say, do any of her friends happen to be other figure skaters?</p>
<p>Sports are okay, but not academic/intellectual activities :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s the whole point. Most kids going to these “prestige” schools are no more extraordinary than any other kids, except in the minds of their parents. Hopefully, they have not been so screwed up to believe they are something special and thus entitled to only the smartest friends and peers. Hopefully they are normal kids who simply were a little more driven to having a good GPA and SAT. But to listen the parents around here, these kids are so special that they will only thrive in an environment where everybody else is a genius. What a crock. It is the very rare kid who is actually extraordinary.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry, that’s what I am beginning to feel after tons of these posts. I almost feel sorry for some of these kids. They will possibly never fit in anywhere because they will be convinced they are too good for most places, most people, most boyfriends or girlfriends. To me this is sad.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, that happens, but hasn’t happened to us. The kids like to ice skate. Its expensive but keeps them off the streets. We have no illusions of their being professionals. It is something however they enjoy and will always have to take with them from their youth. They have taken it only as far as THEY wanted to take it. No stress. No pressure. That’s the difference between a healthy environment and an abusive environment.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I share your enthusiasm for those qualities. I’m also attracted to people who are very intelligent-unless they lack the qualities above.</p>
<p>truthseeker, when you find the island that has not a shred of the stuff you’re talking about, but does have world class skating, please let us know. We’re coming for a visit.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Hmmm… I guess there is prestige and then there is “prestige”. Unfortunately, I do know kids who would avoid the two latter schools like plagues. :o(</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Just because you live in a status conscious and driven world does not mean that other people do. In fact, most people don’t. For most people, they just want their kids to be happy and well adjusted and healthy. They don’t worry whether their kids are going to be in contact with suitable, intelligent counterparts. I mean, its really incredible. I can’t ever remember thinking to myself. . I wonder if my daughter’s friends are smart enough for her or whether they are too smart for her? Normal people simply don’t worry about these things, nor do normal people sweat over whether their kid will be admitted into the top schools. Most parents I know want their kids going to college of course, and most of them will send them to good colleges, balancing out the cost of those colleges . . .as they should. They don’t feel that their kid is starting out with a strike against them in life if they don’t attend the elite. And I would guess that most students, given the choice, would want a normal college experience, which includes football games, and mindless activities from time to time.</p>
<p>
This is an interesting line of argument, and I’d like to analyze it a little bit. Correct me if I’m misstating your opinion, but you seem to be suggesting that some kids aren’t actually smarter than others, but rather that they were just “driven” to have a good GPA and SAT. Surely you don’t really think that? It’s my observation that there are kids who are extraordinary in different ways–in sports talent, artistic talent, public speaking, personal drive, and, yes, intellectual ability. The kids who pair that talent with an internal drive are the most successful, and the most impressive. And the very most selective colleges are able to admit classes of students who do match those talents and drive–often multiple talents (i.e., kids who are musical prodigies and excellent students). Certainly, towering geniuses are not that common, but the United States is big, and there are pretty many really top-notch students who are also good writers and good violinists, and who did charity work, etc., because that’s the kind of high-energy people they are. The top colleges don’t get all such people, but they get a lot of them, and enough of them that most of their admits are like this. It can be exhausting to be around people like this all the time, of course, and not everybody wants that.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I think there is another reason, beyond any snobbery or elitism, why some kids in the second group do not want to end up in the same college as the first group, namely a sense of fairness. A belief that working very hard and doing all the right things will get you to a better place. </p>
<p>It offends a certain natural sense of justice that coasting through high school, frittering away your spare time, and getting wasted on the weekends will get you to exactly the same place at the beginning of your college career as will working very hard, getting great grades, and doing worthwhile activities.</p>
<p>^^^^^ Yes Hunt, there are levels of intelligence. But the differences on the bell curve for those attending the elite schools vs. the non-elite schools is really not all that significant, certainly not so significant that it is going to matter a whit in how successful a person will be in life after college or that is should effect who a kid is friends with. Are there a few extraordinary kids there? Of course. And yes, those kids SHOULD get into the very top schools and should get there on merit based scholarships. But no, the difference between the average State school student and the average Ivy league student, I would guess is pretty small. I know I notice No difference in my dealings with the ivy graduates as opposed to the none ivy graduates. Sometimes its a matter only of who prepared for the SATs harder than somebody else.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But it won’t be the same place.</p>
<p>Let’s say that student A and student B both went to a high school in New Jersey. Student A does the minimum to get into Rutgers, gets admitted with no financial aid or scholarships, and goes there. Student B is a high achiever, but does not get into HYPetc. while getting a full ride at Rutgers.</p>
<p>As they select courses and consider majors, student A is only marginally prepared for college level work and chooses an easier schedule, and limits his/her majors to those which are not “too hard”, while taking a second major in “malted beverage social studies”. Meanwhile, student B chooses whatever s/he is interested in and considers “hard” majors, having been prepared well for college level work by doing well in high school.</p>
<p>Student A barely manages to graduate after eleven semesters much to the consternation of parents who had to pay an extra year and a half of costs beyond the full in-state price of Rutgers. His/her major and grades make him/her an unattractive candidate for employers, and his/her grades make getting into a worthwhile graduate or professional school unlikely. Meanwhile, student B on the full ride graduates in eight semesters as an honor student, having enriched his/her academic experience with additional interesting courses (even if they may have been “hard”) and undergraduate research, with a major and grades that give him/her plenty of good options for jobs and graduate or professional schools.</p>
<p>Marysidney, you said that you chose your college because you wanted to be around “brilliant, highly-motivated students” (like you I presume).</p>
<p>This may come as a shock to you, but there are people that aren’t “brilliant” but are highly-motivated and interested in learning. But I guess you don’t want to associate with these sorts.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Sure, they’ll have different experiences along the way and maybe different opportunities when they come out, but when viewed at the macro level both those kids ended up at the same place. One worked hard in high school and one slacked off, and they both went to Rutgers and both ended up as Rutgers graduates. </p>
<p>It’s easy to see how the hard-working kid might look at slacker classmate and wonder if all his work was worthwhile. Getting into a “better” college than the slackers provides instant validation that your hard work was recognized and that it paid-off.</p>