<p>^^^^ The answer is self evident is it not? If money is no object, there is no question on the table. For most people money is an object. 250K for a prestigious undergrad diploma, assuming full pay, versus 0 for Podunk U is a hell of a difference for many people. The question is whether that financial sacrifice is worth it.</p>
<p>And don’t forget that these Prestigious schools are a business like any other. They are looking for people to pay full freight to make money available for the needy they want attending their schools, or for the truly brilliant. So lets say your child gets in but there are no discounts on the tuition (i.e., scholarships) Do you pay full freight so that your child gets to go there and so you can help subsidize another student’s education?</p>
<p>The finances definitely can dictate the choices, but there is a lot of gray area there where, a family could do it, but at what dollar amount, at what point is it not worth it? Should dad get a second job, mom scrub Port a johns to get the money needed? Should the family borrow more than any mortgage broker would lend them or anyone for that matter? Where the personal financial lines are drawn makes all of the difference, and it is an individual issue. Some families would give it all up to send a kid to a name school. Some won’t pay anything. We see them all on this board, even.</p>
<p>No, truth seeker; much of the difference is due to class size, but as I said in my post, some of the difference is due to the difference in caliber of student. If, as a teacher, you have to start with the expectation that, for example, the language in Shakespeare is going to be difficult for the students to understand without looking up every third word, you have to expect that it will take longer for the students to read the play, and that most of them won’t bother to read the secondary material you assign. The level of discussion, assuming there is discussion, is consequently lowered. Even a lecture can be affected by the caliber of student: how much can I assume that they know about Tudor monarchs? Did they take AP European history, or not? (in this example, AP is merely shorthand for upper-level coursework). Do I have to explain the details of the Reformation, or can I take for granted that they know at least the basics, and that I won’t have to make clear the difference between Lutheranism and Calvinism, and why it matters to the Elizabethan audience? Do they understand the interactions between politics and literature? Do they know why it was so important to have a sponsor for your acting troupe? I have taught students who are quite bright but have never learned to think critically about a text; who have learned in high school that the important thing in an essay is to make sure you have an introduction, three points of your argument, and a conclusion, not that the argument has to be interesting and coherent. These things take time to teach, and it is profoundly boring for a student who does understand Shakespeare to have to listen to the professor explain about the subtext. Certainly, by the time you get to upper-level English courses some of this should be shaken out.</p>
<p>Again, I’m making a sweeping generalization, and it should be understood that there are many kinds of colleges, not just Prestigious and Podunk as analogs for Good and Bad. Students come in all kinds, too, and I’ve had plenty of students at Prestigious U who were not ready for prime time. But it is wrong to say that there is no difference between schools with their pick of the best-prepared and smartest, and schools that attract less-prepared and perhaps less motivated, students. Certainly, an excellent education can be achieved anywhere; for that matter, plenty of people have educated themselves. It’s just harder.</p>
<p>^^^^ I get it, but I would state that there are probably plenty of students at the more prestigious schools that would be no more prepared for Shakespeare than students at Podunk U. You are talking about subjects here that maybe even the really bright kids stay away from. On the other hand, I am sure there are children who love English and Shakespeare but detest math and science. They may have no choice but to end up at Podunk U, and yet they may be the top students in the study of Classical Literature.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus, yes I know, I should’ve more explicitly stated that because she was a hard-worker and highly motivated, she got into said prestigious law school from Podunk U.</p>
<p>What you have stated is pretty much reality. As a working engineer myself, I am friends with grads from all calibers of schools… the consensus is that, at the undergrad level, elite schools often provide fringe benefits and better networking opportunities. Lesser known schools, on the other hand, can often provide a better overall college experience since there isn’t the incessant hypercompetitive and prestige mentality around campus. </p>
<p>I had an amazing undergrad experience where I went, and it was not an elite school in the sense of national rankings (although it is a great school for Aero Engineering). If I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would still choose to go to the same school. I feel the experience I had there was priceless, and prestigeless (ha).</p>
This is not really true. There may be some such students, but at the most prestigious schools, the vast majority of students are well-prepared in all subjects–because they had to get top grades in challenging high school curricula just to get in. For example, these days there will be few of them, even English majors, who didn’t already take calculus–and received a top grade in it. They are able to hit the ground running in a way students at other universities–on average–will not be able to do. This does create some opportunity for the top high school student to outrun the others at a less selective school, but that has pros and cons.</p>
<p>Again, it depends on what your degree will be in. A Harvard medical school grad will practice right alongside a Mizzou grad in the Midwest. Their ability to get a job and the pay they will make will essentially be the same.</p>
<p>No, prestigious colleges aren’t worth anything more and certainly not worth the money. My dad went to a state school and is now a CEO of a national corp. He hires and interviews people weekly and says he doesn’t care where they graduated from, all he wants is a hard and dedicated worker.</p>
<p>Dear Abby,
How does your CEO father evaluate how hard of a worker someone is BEFORE he hires him or her? Does he use the candidate’s GPA? If so, would he consider a 3.7 at your local state university to be worth the same, more or less than a 3.7 at Princeton? Would he agree that, ON AVERAGE, a student who was accepted to a school like Harvard or Stanford worked harder throughout high school than the average student at Podunk U?</p>
<p>Except for international students, for those whom it would cost $250k, a lot of them, money is not material (I didn’t say “no object”, just that they have the ability and willingness to spend). For those whom money is an issue, the financial aid of top tier schools makes the cost significantly less than $250k, and in many cases, on par with Flagship State Schools. If it is going to cost the same (or less), why not choose the school with better name recognition?</p>
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<p>Straw man argument. False choice. All the top tier schools have need based aid that is, by far, better than Flagship State Schools. If your family has an income less than $80k/yr, Harvard is FREE, including room and board. Try to beat that with even a Community College.</p>
<p>[Net</a> Price Calculator](<a href=“http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/]Net”>http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/) reports that for a family of 3 with 1 in college, $65,000 or less is the income threshold to reduce the parent contribution to $0. The ESC (expected student contribution from work earnings) is $4,600.</p>
<p>Note that the flagship state schools vary in need-based financial aid. The ones in NC, FL, and WA are particularly good for their in-state students. The ones in IL and PA are particularly bad for their in-state students.</p>
Who cares about how hard a student worked in high school? If I was CEO I would want an employee who works hard now. Not that they had a 3.999 GPA in high and was varsity captain of the soccer team. High school doesn’t matter once you’re in the job market.</p>
<p>Well Opera Dad, since my child is a graduating Senior this year, I know lots of parents whose kids have been admitted to various schools and many are now wrestling with the issue of whether to pay for the more elite school or not because most of us are NOT getting need based aid. In my case, my EFC this year is $99,999. So to me it is a real question. Do I want to spend full ride for that more elite University or not? That’s why I am researching the issue, and almost everything objective I review indicates that for Undergrad, its not worth the extra cost if significant. Most of the people saying its worth it are giving subjective opinions only. I even reviewed some of that thread from 2006, but when I read opinions such as “kids at more elite schools are more likely to do things for the joy of learning only”, I stopped reading . . recognizing from a critical thinking point of view . . that these opinions were complete nonsense. That’s my opinion anyway.</p>
<p>Answer the question, Niquii. How does a boss know how hardworking a recent college graduate is now, BEFORE s/he is hired and actually starts doing a job for the company?</p>
<p>There’s a common misconception on CC that families with high EFCs can “easily” afford to pay full price because their calculated EFC “says so”. </p>
<p>In reality, that’s an extremely complicated question, much of nance not captured in the EFC formula. Do you fully fund your 401k? Are you underwater in a mortgage? Etc. Etc.</p>
<p>As a family also with a high EFC there are VERY few we’d consider paying full price for, maybe two. And then, it’s a big maybe.</p>
<p>“Lesser known schools, on the other hand, can often provide a better overall college experience since there isn’t the incessant hypercompetitive and prestige mentality around campus.” end quote.</p>
<p>UMMM, without having gone to a prestigious university, how do you know that they are incessantly hypercompetitive and have a prestige mentality? </p>
<p>Both my kids went to a topo-twenty ranked university and loved being surrounded by fun, quirky, interesting, enthusiastic and motivated students… It cost me less for the first kid, than having her attend our local state school. and about the same as the state school for the second kid.</p>