“Why would a student help or work with another student when there are a very limited number of As set by a rough curve?” - Very simple answer - some feel that explaining to others make them understand the material better, that is in addition to drawing a great satisfaction from helping others and the pride when these others are doing well because of you, while you personally were told so. And another point to consider, if you have a grade of 100%, who is going to lower your class grade? Another person with 100%? I do not think so.
If only 10% of the class can get an A and more than 10% of the class gets a 100 it is conceivable that you will not get an A.
^It is NOT a concern for the person who ALWAYS aims at A, no matter what class. If one has a goal of A, then she will make sure that her test scores are close to 100% and that way she is not affected by the curve. I do not know any other way to succeed. Not helping others was not an option for my kid, she loved helping. Ability to present material in clear and understandable way is a very good skill to develop anyway for a future MD, they are presenting a lot. These presentations will affect your grades in the 3rd year of Med. School, and everybody is graded in the 3rd / 4th year, there is no p/f there.
This is of course assuming that the professor has constructed a test where 100% is a reasonably attainable grade. I took many classes where the prof wanted to distinguish between A level work and the truly exceptional student. I was in classes where no one could break 80 on the exams, and the professor felt that being able to answer 70% of the questions was A level work given the exam’s difficulty - regardless of how many students achieved that threshold.
As I stated before, if the university has a hard cap policy that under no circumstances should >10% of the class receive an A, what do you think happens when greater than 10% of the class has 100s?
Very true, and I heard about classmates who during 1st/2nd year used to routinely help other classmates who come 3rd/4th year either stopped being so helpful or would even actively sabotage other classmates. A real world example of this: after a classmate comments on how tired they are, another student said, “Why don’t you take a nap? I’ll wake you up if the residents need us.” He didn’t wake him up when the residents summoned them. It’s not representative behavior, but don’t act like these types of shenanigans don’t happen and that the grading scale doesn’t influence behavior.
Omg, this thread. “Sometime people just talk. Who knows their reasons.” That’s CC. Ha.
This isn’t as simplistic as a small school making it easier to get into med school. What OP or his friends (or many kids, in general,) need is to find a UG school that is more collaborative than competitive in the pre-med arena. That doesn’t mean whether or not there are some study groups, large or small. It’s a philosophy through the depts, where profs encourage the learning, make themselves available. The college that intentionally weeds out a large percentage can set nearly impossible bars- no matter the size of the student body.
But once you are in that college, there are still many factors to consider, that can make or break one’s future.
So, DAP would like us to know his kid chose a school that worked for her. And while that is what all ardent premeds should do (imo, and it is more than US News rankings,) it doesn’t lead to universal truths about how it works or which kids get further.
Sometimes, an individual kid being collaborative is a strong skill and very appropriate to the study/practice of medicine, especially depending on which sub-field interests him/her. Other times, the collaboration doesn’t translate into the variety of skills to make a good doc. In part, I work with med students and see the range of assets- no matter the size of the UG college. And, no matter whether they did pre-med UG or a post-Bacc. We also see the overall skill difference in kids who have experience in the medical field, not “just” academics.
" kid chose a school that worked for her. And while that is what all ardent premeds should do" - That is absolutely correct. The UG is actually very important as it should fit a specific kid as much as possible. And I strongly believe that it is actually a universal truth that if student/UG match is achieved, then this student will have a better chance at achieving her goal whatever it may be. The other factors outside of the fit, will not be as great influence, top of the rankings, bottom of the rankings, big, small, whatever…I would just comment that instead of saying that the " kid chose a school that worked for her", she (and we, her parents) spent enormous effort, time, resources making sure (ahead of the time, not looking back) that she chooses a school that WILL work for her, and while the size was one of her criteria, the rankings were not.
A school can be collaborative, and still have grade deflation. Example: Harvey Mudd. Generally no curve, wicked hard, if all students COULD get enough answers right, all could get As. Hugely collaborative environment. But not a good pre-med environment due to low average GPAs.
Another thing to consider about a small school; fewer students may mean less competition, but small class sizes allow professors to make some very challenging tests. If there are hundreds in a class, tests are often multiple choice (though those can be challenging too), because that’s the only way grading is manageable. After intro Bio, Ds science classes had 25 or fewer students. Her tests had a lot of critical thinking essays, where answers were a page long and came from synthesizing material not just directly from notes or the book. When Miami says students just need to earn 100+ with extra credit, that just isn’t how all colleges/ courses work. In many of Ds classes no one earned a 100 on any test, and there was no extra credit.
The best advice has been given many times on CC. Choose a college that has majors/ classes/ programs/ extracurriculars/ location/ size that are a good fit for you. Find out how helpful pre-med advising is, and if there is a decent amount of support for pre-meds, and opportunities for research and shadowing. And very important - choose a school you can afford with little to no debt. Trying to game the system by picking a certain size school to give you a better GPA won’t work. There are too many variables at play. Go where you’ll be happy whether or not you end up going to med school.
“When Miami says students just need to earn 100+ with extra credit, that just isn’t how all colleges/ courses work. In many of Ds classes no one earned a 100 on any test, and there was no extra credit”
- D. had mostly !00+% in practically all Gen. Chem. tests. I guess, kids have a “nose” who to ask. That is how D. got SI (Supplemental Instructor) job working for Gen. Chem. prof for 3 years, after which she did not need to prep. Chem. for the MCAT. Helping others is always beneficial.
We have discussed the class sizes previously. The class sizes at Honors colleges are small, I imagine that most Honors classes are smaller than the classes at small school, but I do not know class sizes at small college. However, small class that consists primarily of HS valedictorians, which is the case at small Honors programs, that may have a total of 200 kids, still provides enough competition. So, aiming at 100% is a very good goal to have.
" And very important - choose a school you can afford with little to no debt." - yes, very much agree and having at least a full tuition Merit is the best choice as long as school fits the student. “Go where you’ll be happy whether or not you end up going to med school.” - is the best advice! But great Merit UG award will free family resources for the Med. School.