Is Hillary done, cooked and baked?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Zoosermom:</p>

<p>Thank you kindly. The credit goes to the Washington Post article that I linked to earlier for raising the Cicero/Demosthenes contrast. As for my knowledge of Latin and Greek, the credit goes to my pre-1968 French education. I hope your daughter pursues her interest in classics. I still remember vividly the discussions we had over Plato’s Phaedo. We girls thought he was terribly unfair in his portrayal of Xanthippe, Socrates’ wife. But we did not know we were being feminists then. :)</p>

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<p>" As for my knowledge of Latin and Greek, the credit goes to my pre-1968 French education. I hope your daughter pursues her interest in classics. I still remember vividly the discussions we had over Plato’s Phaedo. We girls thought he was terribly unfair in his portrayal of Xanthippe, Socrates’ wife. But we did not know we were being feminists then. "</p>

<p>I can’t fully articulate how impressed I am. We’re fighting very hard as we speak to get her Latin next year. The department chairwoman has gone to bat for my daughter, so we’re hopeful. If that doesn’t work, then she will take it at community college where she’s taken several classes and has a 3.7. We’ve been told that it’s doable.</p>

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<p>mini: Of the top Democratic candidates, I think Edwards has been the most detailed on all the issues. Although I agree about Kucinich and his health care plan, I think Edwards’ is the more viable (and certainly more detailed in “how” it can take place than is Obama’s).</p>

<p>And, to be honest, I think the person that the Republicans would least like to see getting the nomination is Edwards. I believe that if either Obama or Hillary gets the Democratic nomination, we can expect another 4 years, at least, of Republicans running the country. No doubt about it.</p>

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<p>janieblue: You may be right about Edwards being the only democrat who can win in November. I am not so “hopeful” about Obama and I think the answer to the question posed by the title of this thread is “yes”.</p>

<p>About Steinem’s article- I don’t think she is right. The hypothetical scenario of a black woman is a problem simply because the disadvantages are additive- being black and a woman.</p>

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<p>"And, to be honest, I think the person that the Republicans would least like to see getting the nomination is Edwards. "</p>

<p>I think the easiest of the three to defeat would be Hillary, but the second easiest would be Edwards. Obama would be the most difficult. However, in terms of being the best president (of the viable Dems), I would rate Obama last and Hillary first.</p>

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<p>vicariousparent: Well, I believe Steinem could have substituted, just as easily, a white woman (or a white man) in that scenario. The very fact that Obama is a black man symbolizes change. So would a woman president, but – as Steinem rightly points out – we’re up for change, but a woman president? Now, that’s going a little too far . . .</p>

<p>Obama is personable, charismatic, and can sure wow a crowd with his rhetoric. I just don’t think that’s enough to get us out of the mess in which we’ve now found ourselves, after 7 years of Bush. And I don’t think we can afford the luxury of having him learn on the job. </p>

<p>Spinning out in my head what might happen down the road, I cringe at the thought of Obama and McCain in public debate. When it gets down to the 2 nominees squaring off with each other, people are going to be looking for more than an evangelical rallying of crowds and charisma. Of course, I could be wrong. We’ve certainly elected people with less than that going for them.</p>

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<p>janieblue post #39</p>

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<p>None of the three top democrats have much experience. As for Edwards, he is a one-term senator who was so hated by his constituents, that he couldn’t deliver the state for John Kerry. The only other experience he has is chasing ambulances and thereby making tons of money to support $400 haircuts.</p>

<p>On the other hand, W had the experienced cabinet let by Cheney and Rumsfeld but look where we are today because of it.</p>

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<p>Agree Janieblue, all of this excitement for change will quickly turn into a story of his lack of experience next to McCain.</p>

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<p>“Agree Janieblue, all of this excitement for change will quickly turn into a story of his lack of experience next to McCain.”</p>

<p>Wouldn’t that be a legitimate point of difference? Isn’t that we vote on?</p>

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<p>Jaineblue: I agree we are in deep trouble thanks to Bush. </p>

<p>The hope I have with Obama is that he will break free from some of the extremist elements on the left end of his party. If he gets enough centrist support from independents and moderate Republicans he may no longer need to pander to unions, for example. I believe not one union has supported him so far.</p>

<p>But perhaps Bloomberg will be better able to form those coalitions.</p>

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<p>“I will just say that Clinton has certainly spent more time in the Senate.”</p>

<p>How much more time in the Senate? And is it so much more than Obama that she can legitimately be called “the experienced candidate”, and Obama the one “sorely lacking in experience”?</p>

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<p>“But perhaps Bloomberg will be better able to form those coalitions.”</p>

<p>Ewwwwww. Hillary would be better than Bloomberg.</p>

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<p>Hondu: I’ve never understood the hatred of lawyers who make money. Edwards is self-made. He’s been poor; he knows what it’s like; he’s certainly the only candidate who has ever had to drop out of college because he couldn’t afford to attend. He made money as a personal injury trial lawyer, but he was honest, upstanding, and his cases were not frivolous.</p>

<p>I always tell people that they need to take a serious look at the cases/people John Edwards defended. His last case, in particular, is worth noting. Not to get too graphic here, but here’s the story. This little girl, 5 years old, was swimming/wading in a public pool. She was sucked towards an open drain (no cover). The cover had been removed earlier in the day, probably by children. The force/vortex of that open drain-- pulling her towards it-- was so great that it sucked 80% of her small intestines and close to 70% of her large intestines (through her anus). The force was so strong that four adults could not pull her off the drain, until the pumps were shut down. She survived, but now-- after several surgeries-- she spends 12-14 hours a day being fed by a tube in her chest, which will be required the rest of her life. The company that makes those drains offered her family $100,000, which her parents declined. </p>

<p>Edwards discovered that 12 other children across the country had suffered similar injuries, one of those dating as far back as 1981. (His case occurred in 1993, I believe.) The company that made those drain covers didn’t even bother to put warnings on the drains, or change them so they couldn’t so easily be removed, until mid-1987. The drain in this 1993 case was made in 1987, after other similar injuries, and before the company decided it needed to make a change and offer a warning. </p>

<p>I personally believe that little girl and her family deserved every penny Edwards and his partner managed to get for her. And I would hope the company went out of business,though I don’t think they did. I will also add that before this happened to this particular little girl, and Edwards won this case, of those dozen children who suffered similar injuries from the same drain cover maker, several resulted in death.</p>

<p>I could go on about some of his other cases, but I believe this is the last one he took on and is worth repeating. I don’t know about you, but if that happened to anyone in my family, I’d sure want John Edwards on my side. I honestly don’t know how anyone could call that “ambulance chasing.” I will also add that, because of Edwards, I doubt this will happen to another child again-- at least not with drain covers made by that company.</p>

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<p>janie, I also have never understood the hatred for plaintiff’s lawyers. Many are righteous & aid lowly whistle-blowers in their quest for accountability & public responsibility. Others, naturally, are ambulance chasers. Personally, I’ve met few of the latter, but more (lots & lots of) business owners who resent being held accountable by the law. </p>

<p>As to choices, I find Hillary formulaic & uninspiring; big yawn, as well as in personality a big turn-off. I find Edwards exciting. I find Obama even more exciting. To me, that’s the bottom line. I realize that Obama is less experienced, but to me what’s important is that he galvanizes & energizes. Jimmy Carter, George McGovern, many others, have had some great ideas but were lousy in the leadership department. This is not an absolute monarchy, but a democracy that depends for its effectiveness on maximum participation by a great percentage of the populace. I want my fellow citizens actively involved & motivated. Apathy is really dangerous.</p>

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<p>“Agree Janieblue, all of this excitement for change will quickly turn into a story of his lack of experience next to McCain.” Wouldn’t that be a legitimate point of difference? Isn’t that we vote on?</p>

<p>Some vote on experience – others vote on ideas. McCain has more experience but I find his ideas scary - in my case McCain’s experience issue is a moot point.</p>

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<p>When I went to vote a short while ago, the only obnoxious campaign people present were a group of loud middle aged women carrying huge Hillary signs. In my town, they have all campaign people roped off somewhat away from the entrance door, so they can’t intimidate you. These women tried. </p>

<p>The town hall was buzzing. The three people in front of me were voting for Obama. I had to declare a party for about 30 seconds (time it took to vote), and undeclared on the way out the door. Phew! It’s done…and hopefully our phone will stop ringing…</p>

<p>sidenote: while I was typing this, the phone rang. It was the Clinton campaign!
I was so happy to tell the caller to go away!!! They asked if I supported their candidate. I told them I was still undecided!! :slight_smile: I wonder if this counts as an exit poll?? I feel very sorry for the Clinton campaign in my area. It is going to be a very long night for them I think.</p>

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<p>katliamom: Yes, I’m with you on McCain. (I’ll certainly vote for Obama if he’s the nominee.) I just cringe at the thought of a debate. I do not think Obama has done well in any of the debates; I think that’s where his weaknesses really show up. The one person I know for sure who could debate anybody, in any party anywhere, and truly shine-- is John Edwards. I think he did so, again, on Saturday night (my opinion).</p>

<p>epiphany: Thanks for those comments; they certainly give me hope. Perhaps you are right.</p>

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<p>Speaking of McCain, there’s another one whose supporters I don’t understand. He’s frequently called by the press “an independent,” “a maverick,” & similar terms. Yet he’s one of the biggest halks in Congress. He’s also anti-choice & has been cozying up with the Evangelicals for some time now. On the issue of illegal immigration he’s a complete sell-out to corporate desires for cheap labor.</p>

<p>I have always failed, and still fail, to understand the media’s interest in him.</p>

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<p>janieblue,</p>

<p>Hubby voted for Edwards. He actually has an Edwards lawn sign stuck in the snow bank in front of our house. So - Edwards got at least one vote in our house. ;)</p>

<p>(S voted absentee for a Republican.) I guess we have a politically dysfunctional family. The funny thing is, we share most of the same values and we love and support each other dearly! In the end, our political tendencies are somehow insignificant when it comes to how we live as a family.</p>

<p>P.S. 15 year old daughter would have voted for Edwards too.</p>

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<p>Why McCain,</p>

<p>he is a hawk in congress, but he has the scars to prove he knows what war is like, and as much as he is a hawk, he believes waterboarding is torture compared to Romney. He is a fiscal senator and does not put up with pork barrel. He is pro-life, but he has proof that he believes in that also (daughter is adopted…not Megan) Illegal immigration is an issue that has become too complexed to answer and until Obama has more time on the hill for votes he doesn’t get a pass from me. Finally many of his bills introduced into the senate were co-sponsored from the other side of the aisle</p>