Is it a bigger achievement to be accepted into Columbia as undergrad or as grad?

Colleges & Universities Columbia University
21

<p>With all due respect, I qualified my statement with arbitrarily" and immediately after conceded that it’s at least in the top 10. The real issue is that it’s almost impossible to gauge “prestige.” Columbia may not be the 4th best school in the country, but it may very well be the 4th most prestigious. It’s all brand perception, so it really doesn’t matter. I only mentioned its prestige to show how it’s improved from 20-30 years ago. Arguing about the relative prestige of top 5 and even top 10 schools is casuistic and futile.</p>

22

<p>

</p>

<p>Why do people think they can get away with making highly specious claims by prefacing them with the phrase: “with all due respect”?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>It mattered enough for you to pen an explanatory response.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Your intentions for making statements have no bearing on their truth or falsity.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Except for the fact that there really isn’t any argument about the top 5: HYPSM. Which is why your “argument” that Columbia “may very well be the 4th most prestigious” can be characterized as “casuistic” and “futile.”</p>

23

<p>This is a pointless thread but I’m going to reply anyway since I’m procrastinating. Have to agree with ChaoticOrder here, with a slight twist. </p>

<p>The average academic ability of Columbia PhD students is definitely higher than the average academic ability of the undergrad population. However, there seems to be a greater prestige attached to being admitted as an undergrad precisely because of the arbitrary nature of the undergrad admission process. We look at someone who got into a math PhD program at Princeton and think, “I know how he got there, he’s just really smart and worked his tail off.” On the other hand, we all know highly intelligent people who were rejected from selective undergraduate schools. So when we see undergrads from one of these schools, we think they must be something really special because the admission process mystifies us and is seemingly beyond our comprehension.</p>

24

<p>Iamtbh has serious issues with anybody speaking favorably of Columbia. God forbid somebody thinks Columbia is better than HYPSM. I guess that is not allowed since there is “no argument.” (rolling eyes).</p>

25

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t agree that this is inherently true. Many non-traditional students are determined to reach a goal and are academically focused as a result. Conversely, many students straight out of HS manage to party too much and flunk out after a year.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You are equating “more likely from middle/high class families” to “geared for success and leadership in future society.” To the contrary, I don’t believe that the social class of one’s family of origin is relevant to being geared for success and leadership in future society. In fact, a traditional-aged student’s social class is the result of that student’s parents’ behavior, and therefore does not suggest anything about that student’s qualities.</p>

<p>Similarly, you are equating “said person more likely from families who recognize the value of higher ed” to “geared for success and leadership in future society.” However, if a traditional-aged student’s family does not recognize the value of higher education, that says nothing about the student’s own outlook or qualities.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This doesn’t make sense. Columbia’s School of General Studies (“GS”) is not a graduate school. To the contrary, it offers undergraduate degrees.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Life experience and diversity do not inherently make one more qualified academically. However, they also do not inherently make one less qualified academically.</p>

<p>In regard to the specific categories listed:</p>

<p>Serving in the military does not make one less qualified than the same candidate absent any military experience. To the contrary, the military tends to instill specific traits, such as discipline, which make one more qualified.</p>

<p>Stay-at-home parents are often such because the other parent is not fulfilling their responsibilities. In fact, it reflects positively on the stay-at-home parent that they are willing and able to take on more than their share of the parenting of their children.</p>

<p>An “ex-drug addict” is, by definition, no longer addicted to drugs. It is unclear why a problem which was already resolved makes one less qualified. Moreover, I am curious as to whether you have evidence that the School of General Studies and/or any of the graduate schools at Columbia admit significant numbers of former drug addicts.</p>

<p>And the term, “gray beards”, is simply ageist. In any case, it is difficult to respond to this term because it is not even clear who is classified thereunder.</p>

26

<p>

</p>

<p>This is a false accusation. I have absolutely no problems with Columbia. It is an excellent institution and arguably the best non-HYP ivy (although the students and alums at Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth and Penn would probably beg to differ). But it is not the fourth best or most prestigious American university by any stretch of the imagination. That is a borderline delusional statement.</p>

27

<p>^^^ Very true. Although you may be able to make a case for Columbia over MIT. I’ve seen it as HYPSC before.</p>

28

<p>So I read a couple posts…</p>

<p>and WHO CARES?</p>

<p>Who cares if Columbia is the fourth most “prestigious” or eighth haha. The fact is it’s up there and who can judge prestige anyway. it’s about the best fit for you once youre this high in the “prestige” factor anyway. I’ve seen hyps kids choose columbia and the other way around of course!</p>

29

<p>I’m not saying Columbia is the 4th or the 2nd or the whatever most prestigious university, but saying it is NOT the 4th most and that there is no room for argument is ridiculous. We are talking about the whole university as this is a question about grad school v undergrad. Princeton is a wonderful undergrad school with some excellent grad schools, but if you are comparing the comprehensive university, Columbia offers a lot more in many different fields than Princeton for instance. </p>

<p>The whole point of this argument is that one cannot simply say xyz are the top schools period, end of story. It is all highly subjective and depends on the field you are talking about. For many on the east coast Columbia is more prestigious than Stanford. This is the same in Europe. In other parts of the world this is reversed. There is no objective measure for this. You can pull all the stats you want, but at the end of the day prestige is subjective and pretty meaningless when you’re talking about differences between top schools.</p>

30

<p>I think both sides have pretty well stated their arguments in the matter. Let’s leave it at that so people see this as a useful resource in the future and not a prestige debate about an unrelated topic ;)</p>

31

<p>

</p>

<p>In virtually every single academic discipline of import, Stanford is superior. This Columbia student agrees:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Becoming</a> a ‘Global University’ in Truth](<a href=“http://eyedev.columbiaspectator.com/2008/01/27/becoming-global-university-truth]Becoming”>http://eyedev.columbiaspectator.com/2008/01/27/becoming-global-university-truth)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Stanford is more prestigious than Columbia in every U.S. region, including the East:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>

32

<p>“You can pull all the stats you want, but at the end of the day prestige is subjective and pretty meaningless when you’re talking about differences between top schools.”</p>

<p>IAMTBH, get a hobby other than going on Columbia forums and talking about how it’s inferior to Stanford. It’s really pathetic.</p>

33

<p>How do you know that survey wasn’t just based on familiarity with school names rather than the true “best college”? There are certainly a lot of people who wouldn’t recognize a good school (Ivies or top-ranked) even if they saw one, instead correlating academic caliber of an institution with sports recognition or familiarity… When Penn State is put above University of Pennsylvania in terms of overall university ranking, I would tend to call the accuracy of such a survey into question…</p>

34

<p>

</p>

<p>All we know for sure is that the exact following question was used in the poll: </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>

<p>We can only speculate the reasons behind the answers. Even if familarity played a role (which I have no doubt it did), can one make a legitimate argument that Columbia is the fourth most prestigious American university when only one percent of respondents (among the American public) was “familar” enough with it to regard it as the best (or second best) college or university in the U.S.?</p>

<p>Moreover, the survey also polled post-graduates who are more likely to “recognize a good school…if they saw one”:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>

35

<p>Back on topic, when I was young Columbia College (undergrad) was actually relatively easy to get into. Judging from its admit rate, anyway. Not any more.</p>

36

<p>That settles it then. Berkeley and Michigan are just as “prestigious” as Princeton and more prestigious than Columbia, UPenn, U Chicago, Cornell and Caltech because a seven year old Gallup Poll asking a bunch of lay people the question of name the “best” says so.</p>

<p>I’m originally from Nebraska. If you ask a Nebraskan to name the “best” university in the US, many of them will say UNL (even if they have a college degree) because Husker football is HUGE there. My dad is from Indiana, many will say Michigan and Notre Dame there…even those who have graduated from college. Ask an i-banker on Wall Street the same question or a lawyer in New York. You will get different answers. It doesn’t make these schools more or less “prestigious.” A survey of lay people is just that. A survey of lay people. </p>

<p>This all goes back to my point that “prestige” at the graduate or undergrad level is really subjective. You can list every survey out there (and I am sure IAMTBH will) and it will not change anything. It is like asking “what is the best pizza in New York?”</p>

<p>And to top it all off, none of it matters anyway. Go play your video games IAMTBH.</p>

37

<p>The question asked above yields data about the percentage of people who think that Stanford is the best university, compared to the percentage of people who think that Columbia is the best university.</p>

<p>However, the issue is whether Stanford is stronger than Columbia or vice versa. The data provided by iamtbh does not answer this question and thus is irrelevant.</p>

38

<p>

</p>

<p>Stanford is (academically) stronger than Columbia in both breadth and depth:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/908952-2010-usnwr-graduate-school-rankings-news-item.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/908952-2010-usnwr-graduate-school-rankings-news-item.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

39

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/908952-2010-usnwr-graduate-school-rankings-news-item.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/908952-2010-usnwr-graduate-school-rankings-news-item.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

40

<p>IAMBTH…give it a rest bud. You are attempting to quantify something that is ultimately based on people’s cultural influences and personal biases. You are also irritating everybody in the process. Why don’t you go on Stanford’s forum and sing its praises rather than going on Columbia’s forum and quoting random member’s survey postings and irrelevant Gallup Poll data?</p>

<p>Based on the history of your posts, you clearly have a history of setting out to prove Columbia is an inferior school.</p>