Is it better for my B+ /A- student applying test optional to apply ED1 and ED2 to two of their reaches?

College Search & Lists
21

You use the 50 stat line a bit in your response. By definition 50% of the class is going to be below that line and 50% above it - so I wouldn’t get too fixated on someone being slightly above or below that and getting in ED v RD.

There’s a lot more to admission to those schools than just stats.

Tulane is HUGE on demonstrated interest and focus a lot on their “why Tulane” supplemental essays. They might well accept a kid with a 3.7GPA over that kid with the 3.9GPA if it’s clear to them the 3.7 is likely to deposit where the 3.9 is “school shopping”.

22

I use the mid-50 stats because that is what is published. By definition 25 percent of the class has stats below that range (not 50). For most people the definition of a reach is being below the mid 50 range, with the caveat that most people a school a reach for everyone if it has a very low admit rate (maybe below 20%?).

Applying ED is the ultimate display of demonstrated interest and I would say that Tulane is known as a HUGE demonstrated instrerest school in very large part because they accept 70 percent of the kids who apply ED.

However you want to look at the stats for whatever schools. I think it’s very clear that ED is a huge help at some schools and not much help at all at others. That’s the point - the OP asked whether it makes sense to ED at reaches vs targets. I think it depends a lot on which schools those are and how that particular school treats ED.

From the available data it looks like ED helps in a meaningful way at Cornell and most definitely at BU. Hard to tell at Tufts.

1 Like
23

I don’t. The only data I know how to look up is Common Data Set. I don’t think they break it down by college. Someone else may know more.

1 Like
24

My son only had a 3.4 uw, 30 act, so ED’d his #1 which had a 65% acceptance rate. We thought it was a good ED option.

2 Likes
25

One of the schools my D24 applied to has a 50 percent overall acceptance rate and a ED acceptance rate of almost 90 percent. For sure makes a difference there! Not that she applied ED…but literally almost everyone who applied there ED got in.

3 Likes
26

I wish my DS would do the same, but their top five schools are all sub-50%.

2 Likes
27

I think there is limited value this early in the process to be applying game theory to a kid’s list.

Once the preferences are secure- and there is a CLEAR “most beloved” first choice, and a close in “I’d be thrilled to go here”, you can twist and turn over ED, ED2, is there an advantage for the unhooked, etc.

But now? The strategizing is just going to muddy the water and make it harder to actually discern what the kid is really looking for.

And it’s not too late for colleges to change their policies (test optional, test “encouraged”, test required) or some other element of the application process. So really too early.

Why Test optional btw? I think next year’s results are likely to show that a kid needs to be absolutely exceptional across the board for the “most rejective” schools for tests not to matter at all. Kid is a musician of Yo-Yo Ma caliber? Sure, don’t bother submitting or taking. Kid is a good student and an OK cellist? There had better be something else outstanding going on for a highly rejective school to admit-- ESPECIALLY in the early round. Why tie up your “ok cellist” slot in November if you are likely to see an outstanding cellist in the regular pool?

11 Likes
28

Yes yes - I think we were saying the same thing just differently. I was mid-pointing the mid-50.

I also completely agree with you that the best advice to anyone is to research the specific schools because they all have different methodologies. Can’t make a blanket statement that “ED is an advantage”. At some schools it is, at some it’s not.

29

A lot of folks applying to Auburn found that out this year and Auburn isn’t “most rejective”. From that thread it sounded like most of the kids that applied TO in EA got deferred to RD - unclear what the RD accept rate was for TO versus test submitted.

2 Likes
30

A B+/A- student probably won’t be competitive at Cornell or Tufts absent a hook of some kind (recruited athlete, child of major donor, legacy, FGLI, national recognition of some kind etc) regardless of whether or not they apply ED. There are just too many strong students looking at these schools. Applying TO (other than CALS) won’t help. Of course, you should still consider some reaches, but it is going to be really, really important to have a balanced list that includes schools where a student with this profile is more likely to be accepted. Your student might consider trying to test because a strong test score could be helpful at some schools.

19 Likes
31

Spend more time finding colleges that are great options and may offer some merit if that will help your family financially. Tufts is not generous with aid. Run the net price calculators to see where your family will fall.

Identify some EA options where demonstrated interest may help with admissions and merit.

Apply with test scores to some. That is going to be a big factor next year at many “optional” colleges where current students are struggling academically who were admitted test optional.

Only apply ED if that is the number one option and is affordable and not a strategy. Applying somewhere ED is not a required rite of passage, even if it feels that was in your community.

4 Likes
32

While I agree with everyone here who suggests getting your list preferences worked out first and then thinking about strategy, I understand your question to be one of understanding how a strategy could impact your outcome. All this info is ultimately necessary.

This will depend on the school and what your kid brings to them. It also depends on whether that B+/A- average is very good for your high school, what the rigor is, and what exceptional gifts your child will bring.

CALS is not simply TO, it is score free (for 1 more year), so if you think your D can put together a strong application there, is happy applying to a major (especially"a less popular:one), and you have an in-state tuition, it may not be a waste of an ED application. Without knowing your details, Tufts could be a harder sell – they have always been a bit more sensitive to stats, so that TO application will really need to be stellar. They like ED apps because they get so many strong students who use them as a back-up, so the “I will come” matters to them.

You are right to consider whether an ED application is possibly wasted. In general, the student should be a strong applicant to apply ED. And yes, there are a number of schools that are a bit less selective that fill most of their classes in the ED round, so you would be disadvantage in the RD round. In that case, it could be a great ED2 option.

Conn was one that our CC (several years ago) said had a strong ED lift for a good, but perhaps not exceptional student. That may be even more the case if you are FP.

I think, after your list is done, you can go back and strategize, using the details of each school. You may also want to seek out a few schools with rolling admissions or early notification so you can roll the ED dice without fear of being optionless in spring.

So in answer to your question, depending on what’s on your list, you might not want to use 2 ED slots on true reaches.

2 Likes
33

Cornell reduced the proportion of students they take in ED this past cycle. I don’t believe that will change for next year. Most admitted ED applicants to Cornell have a hook.

4 Likes
34

Yes, this appears to have been mostly overlooked in earlier posts.

2 Likes
35

Yes, thank you.

1 Like
36

When it comes to competitive admissions, ED only works when an applicant is well-qualified for the school but risks getting rejected or the WL in the RD round because there are more well-qualified applicants than there are admissions slots. Thus, the first rule in strategizing about ED 1 and ED 2 is that the applicant has to be well qualified for the school. Without a hook, a TO applicant with a B+/A- average is underqualified for both Cornell and Tufts, so OP’s proposed strategy is not going to work. OP’s kid can use their ED advantage to get into a competitive school, but it has to be schools that are less rejective than Cornell and Tufts.

8 Likes
37

I generally agree with this but I would have it be more nuanced. Right now, we don’t know how the student’s B+/A- grades compare to those of the student’s school cohort. At most schools, your statement would be true, but if the OP’s kid is at a school where these are the top grades in the class, then there’s more wiggle room.

Generally speaking, I think that the odds of getting an acceptance via ED are best if a student is no lower than the 25th percentile of the college’s admitted class (in terms of GPA, class rank, test scores, etc). If one is below that 25th percentile, I suspect that ED is not going to be a big enough hook to gain admittance, barring something like an exceptional essay that hits the right reader in just the right way.

2 Likes
38

Thank you for this reply. My DS is in National Honors Society and has made honor roll every semester at their school. They also have very strong extracurriculars and their principal wants to write them a recommendation because they are a stand-out in their school community. Hoping those extras push them over the edge at these two more rejective schools. Fingers crossed. It’s hard to dissuade them from applying to their two dream schools early.

39

There are those who will take issue with the terminology “dream” school. But if your kid has a clear favorite school and the Net Price Calculator returns an affordable result, then ED makes sense if the student & family don’t care about seeing other results, if they were to get into that school.

Where I think ED strategies can be problematic is when one is choosing to ED to a school that is not one’s favorite because one thinks that “using” ED will get a bigger benefit at a particular school than one’s favorite school.

4 Likes
40

I agree with @AustenNut . Is your child in the top quarter of his class? If so, I think ED at one of these schools is remotely possible and if it’s their dream then go for it! But, Tufts and Cornell are both so unlikely (sorry) that I would I would strongly suggest picking one or the other for ED and then pick BU (or a comparable third choice) for ED2. I think BU is potentially attainable if you ED but also very unlikely if you don’t. Hopefully you have some targets and true safeties too. This is why (to me) it felt so important to use ED strategically. I kind of laugh at those who say not to. I mean - I WISH we could ignore it but it sure didn’t feel smart to. But everyone is different. Best of luck!

3 Likes