My assumption was that the accommodations that required extra notice to the professor were not related to exams. Typically that is all done through the disability office anyway and professors are not involved in that sort of clerical aspect other than being made aware that they have a student that will be taking a test in a different area - and that is a communication from the disability office not the student. We are all speculating what sort of accommodations somebody with executive function may need. Certainly reserving an exam room, etc. is something that cannot be done āon the flyā, but again that does not typically fall in the professorās responsibility.
Maybe my assumption was incorrect, but it seemed like the issue was not forgetting to do something like that as the OP says he is finding the material easy so I assume tests are going well. It was missing assignments, not turning things in, etc. It sounded to me like this was either projects or some sort of daily assignment that is a small portion of the grade and there were some sort of accommodation related to this sort of work that required āadvanced noticeā . OP seems to think that required advanced notice is unreasonable given that disability, and I think this is something where a reasonable conversation with the Disability office to come up with a solution would be appropriate.
Iām just confused on how you know so much about your studentās performance. In the first couple semesters, I asked to see their planned schedule and final grades - after that I never really saw anything until the final diploma. I didnāt have any access to in progress grades. I think the original agreement was poorly planned. Iām a full pay parent, but you need to be comfortable with the spend. I donāt think you were comfortable and that is going to lead to a ton of conflict with your son.
I defer to others on how to effectively work with the EF coach, as whatās happening doesnāt make a lot of sense to me. If they have disability services in place and theyāre not being utilized, figuring that out makes sense. But in general, other than making sure they understand ramifications of poor grades - I believed in natural consequences. You promised straight As so youāre transferring to a cheaper school is very different.
Doesnāt matter the particular assignment/test/accommodation. It is always reasonable to give a professor advanced notice of a required accommodation. If a student with an EF disability struggles with this, the schoolās disability office should be able to assist the student.
The disability office at our studentās college contacts professors at the beginning of each semester to let them know what accommodations any individual student has (without disclosing the diagnosis).
In my childās experience, many of their professors have then scheduled time with them to go over the accommodations in place to make sure everyone is on the same page at the beginning of the semester.
At this particular school, if a student requires extra time/quiet test location/etc, the student is required to schedule that 7 days before any test or quiz to make sure there is space/proctor as needed.
Accommodations are necessary and helpful. Students are also adults who need to be able to handle putting the accommodations into place as organized by the school.
Getting back to the title question āIs it fair to expect high grades when paying for college?ā, the answer depends on what āhigh gradesā means.
Straight A grades ā not a reasonable expectation, since getting straight A grades in college is rare and much more difficult to do than in high school.
The grades needed to renew a merit scholarship necessary for affordability ā if applicable, pretty much required, since losing the scholarship makes the school unaffordable.
Staying in good academic standing and on track to graduate on time ā generally a reasonable expectation, although āon timeā may need to be modified under some circumstances (a high school B student who needs to work 20 hours per week to afford school is less likely to graduate in 8 semesters than a high school A student who does not need to work to afford school).
I totally agree. I personally am not in a position where I can spend 90k a year on tuition for any of my kids (heck, thatās almost more than I make a year). I feel maybe OP is trying to find a reason to tell the kid he canāt continue there. Regardless of the kids behavior, I think OP needs to truly decide if they can do this for another 3 years or not. I think it is okay to tell our kids no. I think its okay to tell our kids we made a mistake. But yes, it will be hard to break this kids heart and force them to transfer. But no, I donāt think its okay to guilt the kid and micromanage him.
Exactly. The Disability office is typically in charge of informing the professor. They are also the ones that handle exam scheduling, room reservation, timing of exam. Of course the student may talk to the teacher as well, but typically it comes from official channels.
Not always. The student arranges the accommodations with the disability office, but in some cases, the student needs to take ownership for accessing these accommodations. Of course, this is something I think the EF coach should be guiding the student to do.
The parent said the student had no special things in high school. Was that because the teachers were generally accommodating anyway? Or did the student have an IEP or 504 plan. One thing that throws a lot of folksā¦in high school, there is a case manager that will interface with the student and staff to make sure accommodations are provided. In college, there is not a case manager. The student needs to become their own advocateā¦and a strong one. And yes, I realize this isnāt easy for EF kids.
When I worked at the secondary level, THE most important thing I worked on with my students was self advocacy. For those with IEPs or 504 plans, this was written into their transition plan starting in grade nine. Skills were built on gradually and with significant scaffolding.
At this point, the family has hired an EF coach, but we donāt know how amendable the student is in terms of taking advice and follow through. Thatās why I suggested a talk with the EF coach is in order.
But againā¦the expectation for all A grades in college is a very lofty oneā¦
We had good $40k options, but he begged for this $90k school because itās a feeder and [he told us that if we paid for the more expensive school, he] promised [to earn] top grades so he could go to a top grad school because his goals require it.
So to me it sounds like the parent liked the good $40k options, but the student begged for the $90k option and in return made a promise that theyād get great grades (as a way of getting into āa top grad schoolā which the student also wanted, because of the studentās goals).
So under that understanding, the parent agreed to pay for the $90k school, and is having second thoughts about it because the student doesnāt seem to be going to keep up their side of the ādeal.ā
This is a first year student, yes? So this is a kid thatās been in school for maybe 2 months?
IMO, deep breathes and back away. Itās his first semester of college, and many (if not most) kids in their first semester go wild with the wildly new total freedom of college. No oneās there to ask him if heās going to get to bed, or knock on his door to tell him to get up, or keeping track of whatās happening with him.
See where things fall at the end of the semester. Wait.
We donāt know what specific accommodations this particular student needs but no we are not ā all speculating what sort of accommodations somebody with executive function may needā, because some of us have kids with EF issues and have done extensive research into what type of accommodations can be offered.
Different, I think, from your question, but Iām expecting my S25 to maintain a 3.0 because thatās what he needs to keep his merit scholarship. Without the merit scholarship, the school he selected becomes more costly than what we said we would pay for. S25 knows this and knew it was a requirement when he turned down his just as good but less expensive school.
Now, thatās what weāve said, but if push comes to shove, I donāt know if weāll do it. S25 also has some exec function issues and I just donāt think itās great to have one semester of grades weigh so heavily. Like four Bs and a C his first semester would pull his GPA too low, whereas with a few more semesters under his belt, one C wouldnāt have such weight. In reality, even if he loses the scholarship the total cost of his school will be about the same as my older childās school, and I donāt think it would be fair to pay that for my older guy but not my younger.
Anyway, all that to say, this issue is very much top of mind for me, especially because S25 recently mentioned that he did poorly on tests in two classes.
Perhaps my thoughts on this are also relevant to the original post and the point of this thread.
University is a big learning experience. For most of us classes in university are more difficult than in high school. There is likely to be more homework. Exams are in some cases tougher. However, exams are also often graded on a curve, so that in some cases 85 might be an A+ and 65 might be an A (this would take quite a tough exam, but I have seen exams this tough with this large of a curve and my daughters have also mentioned a small number of cases where this occurred). Just living apart from parents is itself a big learning experience.
At least in some cases the more expensive universities are also higher ranked, which often means that the average student is stronger and exams are likely to be more difficult, and there may be more homework.
I would not expect straight Aās.
I have seen a few cases where students struggled a bit, found their way, and did well (and in some cases went on to very good graduate programs). When I was an undergraduate student I did know two friends who could not take the stress and just dropped out, but most of us managed. More recently a son of one friend was attending a highly ranked university, found it stressful, dropped out, went back and finished, went to law school, and is currently a practicing lawyer. I have heard of cases of students who dropped out of their first university, took some time off, went somewhere else, and ended up doing well. One plus might be that the second time they knew what they were getting into and had gotten themselves mentally ready for it (which might also describe my experience with graduate school).
For most of us it seems to work out in the end, but some bumps along the way are quite common.
Figuring out what to do part way through the process is something that did not come with the āhow to be a parentā handbook, or at least I never saw the appropriate chapter. In general I might be most concerned about the amount of stress that a student is under, and what I could do to help reduce this stress.
I have ADHD, so want to chime in as I havenāt seen any posts from anybody with personal experience with these issues (Iāve seen parents, but that is not the same). I first want to say that ADHD and executive function issues are a spectrum and do not always manifest the same, or even the same in different settings/structures. So, just because something works for one kid with EF challenges does not mean that will work at all for another.
While I agree with the posters who say it is always reasonable for the Professor to get advanced notice, of course it is. But it may be setting some kids up for failure if the accommodation expects them to remember both to ask ahead of time to ask themself for the accommodation every time, and also to remember to do the assignment on time. That is literally asking them to do the hardest part for them, twice. Which is remembering at the right time, the thing they have to do and making a plan to do it. I relate deeply to the parentās description of this kid. Writing the A paper was usually easy for me. Doing what needed to be done on the test substantively was easy for me. What was hard was doing the paper on time. Or even remembering to turn in on time the paper I had already finished. And I never had a test I didnāt stress to finish on time. Ever. Even when I aced them. But telling me I have to remember two deadlines would be worse than just skipping the accommodation sometimes. It feels easier to just have to remember and schedule the one deadline. And, the schools are required to provide reasonable accommodations that are individualized and effective. That may mean that someone other than me would have to tell the professor ahead of each thing. That may mean, that there is an arrangement where there is a sit down at the beginning of the semester that goes through all the things for each class and at that point it is decided and spelled out what the student will need for each assignment/test through the semester as an accommodation so that there are not multiple informing the professor deadlines that the student has to meet. Schools do not get to say that is not how we do it if the accommodations they offer are not effective and the alternatives are reasonable. That is not how disability law works. So yes, it may be unreasonable to ask a particular student to inform the professors ahead of each time they need their accommodations. And that same accommodation may be totally reasonable and function well for another EF student.
Lastly, I do not know OPās kid, and maybe they are being lazy and just deciding not to turn things in. But it is equally likely that they are actually trying (a student who says they want to go to fancy U so that they can get into good grad schools, and who thinks they will earn all As does not strike me as a student who likely would all of the sudden not care how they do). A new environment with a new and less structure and way more distractions can be incredibly hard to stay on top of these things. If it were my kid, I would give them the benefit of the doubt on whether it is being lazy, or they are trying but the deadlines and time awareness thing is particularly hard for them to do. Iād consider that it may be the hardest part of the transition of all for them. And Iād consider, if they have always been a good student (which I assume given how OP describes the ease of classes and this being a top school), that their pride or youthful ego might get in the way of telling you that they are trying to turn stuff in on time or remember all of their assignments but canāt. I would give the kid a lot of grace and the benefit of the doubt and try to figure out what supports they need to be successful here as they have been in the past.
My bet is there is a lot for them to sort through in this more challenging environment to stay focused on these details that were already hard for them.
P.S. for those who know little about EF and ADHD who are wondering, how can someone with such struggles function in the real world. I and many others with these issues do just fine despite these challenges. People I work with have no idea of these struggles and sometimes even complement how organized I am (or they think I am). Over time, you learn ways to adapt and tricks to cope. But many of those are things you flail through at 18 when in a new environment with tons more distraction and less structure than youāve ever seen in your life.
My kids, like @OctoberKate 's, had a gpa requirement to keep one or more scholarships and they knew what they had to do. If āpush came to shoveā would they have had to change schools? Yes, if they lost their scholarships (especially the one who was getting major money) they would have had to change to cheaper schools. It wasnāt me being mean but me not having the money to make up for the merit aid if it was lost. The athlete had required study tables first semester freshman year, got credit for 1 hour is she went to office hours, she sat in the library at study hours, and really learned ācollegeā study habits. When she wasnāt required to go to them anymore (once she had a 3.0 gpa), she still studied for 2 hours every night, still went to office hours, still studied with/tutored others because those habits were formed.
I do think you need to stay on him and the EF coach. You want him to succeed so heāll meet his goal of grad school as thatās why heās at this school. Can you expect all Aās? No, but you can require an A in effort, that he go to office hours, that he put as much time into his classes as into his social life. Itās okay to discuss whatās going on and ask him why heās not turning in work, going to office hours, joining study groups (those are social too). You can remind him of his goal of grad school. I think you can require he go to 1 or 2 office hour or study review sessions per week, that he make a timeline of when things are due until it becomes part of his routine (isnāt the EF coach doing this). Itās not going to be perfect, but it can be better.
The EF coach, in my opinion, should be helping with making these plansā¦and figuring out a way for the student to do them, and make sure they got done.
I am a college professor who has ADHD and has 2 adhd kids. One of those adhd kids is very bright but their work does not show it. They crashed and burned their freshman year in college. In high school they only had a 3.3 gpa because they would ace tests but refuse or forget to turn in homework. Or would not follow directions and be downgraded. He literally thought homework was ābusy work and a waste of timeā and dug his heels in the sand refusing to do simple things that were asked by his teachers.
In the major I teach in, I can refuse late work regardless of requested accommodations. For my students it is a patient safety issue if their provider is unable to respond promptly to the patients needs.
It comes down to you cant force a kid to use the resources they are given. You can pay all the money for EF coaches but if the kid refuses to listen and actually use the strategies they will fail. And parents need to accept their kid for who they are and eventually realize that the kid will be on their own path.
With OPās case, I think as long as the kid is passing their classes and not āwastingā the money (due to need for class retakes), OP is just going to have to let the kid land where they land. Maybe their dream of some prestigious grad school does not materialize but the kid needs to want it more than the parent does. I was very clear with my son that we would not fund true failure. If he wanted to stay at his ādream schoolā then he needed to put in the work. He started to redeem himself first semester of sophomore year and by second semester was a TA in a course. He recognized he needs to keep organized with written notes and a written planner and that it is his responsibility to do so because he does not have me as a safety net anymore. It is now junior year and he is still partying a ton (he lives at the frat house) but has a play hard work hard attitude. He has developed more of a balance and takes responsibility for his own success.
OP needs to truly decide if they can afford another 3 years at this expensive school. Even if the kid graduates with a lower gpa, the name of this fancy school will still be on the kids resume and maybe that will be enough. I dont believe that anything we do as parents can force our kids into being accepted to a highly rated grad school. We need to accept our kids for who they are and be open to changing goals and paths.
This, frankly, is what Iām hoping for my guy. Based on the very little heās wanted to share about classes, Iām guessing heās got one A, two Cs and two Bs. Iām hoping he pulls one of those non-Aās up so we can get to the 3.0 avg.