Is it true about these numbers for engineering at berkely? (Graduate School)

Graduate School
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<p>Oh, I don’t know about that. The criteria for getting into business school differs greatly from the criteria for getting into an engineering grad school. In fact, the criteria are in certain ways somewhat orthogonal to each other.</p>

<p>As mentioned before by Addwit, business schools key heavily on your work experience and leadership. It is extremely difficult to get into a top B-school with top-notch work experience and/or leadership expertise. For example, at any of the top B-schools, a plurality of the students will have work experience from the elite management consulting firms and investment banks. </p>

<p>Furthermore, academic expertise means relatively little for B-school admissions. You can’t just get top grades and test scores and then simply expect to get into a top B-school if you don’t have any decent work experience or leadership skills. The top B-schools reject academic superstars all the time. </p>

<p>For example, I know a guy who got his PHD in engineering from MIT. After getting his PhD, he decided that he wanted to get his MBA. So he applied to a number of top B-schools, including MIT’s own business school (the Sloan School) - and he got rejected by ALL of them. His problem was simple - he had no work experience. He had no demonstrated leadership skills. So he didn’t have what B-schools want. He was clearly an undisputed academic genius. But that’s not really what B-school is all about. B-school is not really about admitting geniuses, because business success is not really about who is the smartest. It’s about who is schmoozy, who can convince people to get things done, who can lead teams, who has self-confidence, who has good public speaking and presentation skills, and things of that nature. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that there’s a big difference between knowing what the right answer is and being able to convince others that your answer is right. The first one takes brains, but the second one takes social skills. There is little point in having the right answer if you can’t get anybody to believe you. In fact, I see this time and time again at all of the top schools - there are students who are technically brilliant, but don’t know how to market themselves to potential employers. </p>

<p>But anyway, the point is, I wouldn’t say that getting into a top engineering grad program is more difficult than getting into a top business school. They are both difficult, but just in different ways. A brilliant nerd is going to find the former to be easier. A non-genius with silky-smooth social skills and charisma is going to find the latter to be easier. </p>

<p>If anything, at least engineering grad school admissions are more straightforward. You get top grades, top test scores, and top recs and you’re practically guaranteed to get in. Sure, it’s obviously very difficult to get those top grades and top scores . But if you can get it, you’re in. On the other hand, B-school admissions are highly highly subjective. It’s quite difficult to judge who really has better leadership skills and social skills or better work experience and managerial potential. That’s why you end up with situations where people can get rejected from all B-schools one year, but then get into many of them the next year, when the fact is, nothing really changed in that one year. </p>

<p>For example, I know a guy with 9 years of work experience who applied to a bunch of top B-schools, and got rejected from all of them. So he then worked for another year, applied to those same schools, and got into most them this time. The fact is, nothing really changed in that 1 year. He was still doing the same job that he was doing before. There is no real difference between having 9 years of experience and having 10. It’s just a very subjective process.</p>

<p>That’s why you also have the situation where you can get rejected from lower-ranked B-schools and still get into top ones. For example, I know a guy who applied to all of the B-schools in the top 10, and got rejected or wait-listed at 9 of them. The one he got admitted to? Harvard. </p>

<p>Again, that goes to show you that it’s a highly subjective process. At least with engineering grad school, you know what you need to do to get in. Yes, those things are difficult to do, but at least you know what it takes. With B-school, there are no set rules. It’s a quite random admissions process with a lot of luck involved. You can do everything right, and still not get in anywhere. For example, I would say that many who get rejected from Harvard Business School are probably just as good as those who were admitted. They were just unlucky to have not been picked that year.</p>

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<p>I went through the Computer Science Ph.D. program application process last year, and I am a bit worried that the main topic of discussion on this thread are GRE scores (or ‘numbers’, more generally).</p>

<p>The primary (and pretty much ONLY) criteria for admissions into a Computer Science Ph.D. program is the quality of your RESEARCH EXPERIENCES as an undergraduate. Nothing else matters, as long as they don’t stand out in a really negative way (such as having a 1.3 GPA and scoring -27 on your GREs).</p>

<p>It is true that people who are admitted into these top programs mostly have high GPAs and GRE scores, but that is NOT WHY THEY WERE ADMITTED! They were admitted due to their research experiences and potential, which are of course positively correlated with intelligence, determination, and academic performance.</p>

<p>Perfect GPA and GRE scores alone will NEVER get you admitted into a top Ph.D. program, and less-than-perfect grades and scores will not disqualify you either, as long as you have solid research experiences. In fact, MIT doesn’t even require you to submit GRE scores; I doubt whether other top schools really even look at your GRE scores … it may just be a formality.</p>

<p>Please see this guide I recently wrote for more details:
<a href=“http://web.mit.edu/pgbovine/www/grad-school-app-tips.htm[/url]”>http://web.mit.edu/pgbovine/www/grad-school-app-tips.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Best of luck in your applications :)</p>

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<p>pgbovine,</p>

<p>great faq page. thanks!</p>

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<p>Actually, I would say that it’s really research POTENTIAL that is the most important criteria. You mentioned this in passing, but I think it bears mention again. There are some PhD students at the top schools who have minimal research EXPERIENCE, but they have research POTENTIAL. </p>

<p>For example, if you can get rec’s from respected profs that gush about your research POTENTIAL, then that can make up for any lack of actual research EXPERIENCE you have. If on the other hand, you have a lot of research experience, but your prof rec’s are poor or even lukewarm, then you probably won’t get into a top program. </p>

<p>But anyway, the point is to contrast PhD eng admissions vs. B-school admissions. Like I said, PhD eng admissions are more straightforward in that you know what you need to do. It’s hard to do, but you know what you need to do. Obviously the most straightforward way to demonstrate research potential is to work on research projects and publish papers and in that way get gushing prof rec’s. However, when you’re talking about B-school, you can do all the things you need to do, and STILL not get in.</p>

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<p>Great point about research potential, sakky! I definitely agree that potential is really what they are really looking for, but the best way to demonstrate potential is through actual experiences. If you don’t have actual experiences, you will need to get pretty lucky to know respected professors who will write about your potential (since that’s such a subjective thing).</p>